4 ms·

This is a good insight. As Smartphones satellite connectivity becomes more widespread, it's definitely expected that government will regulate it similar to cell

by gpt5 4y ago

This is a good insight. As Smartphones satellite connectivity becomes more widespread, it's definitely expected that government will regulate it similar to cellular connectivity and require a free access to emergency services. In the meanwhile, Apple is using it as a differentiated feature.

spicybright 4y ago
It's even better because if there's one thing Apple is good at, it's getting people to copy them. Mandatory 911 sat service on phones that support will save a lot of lives!!
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Mandatory 911 sat service on phones that support will save a lot of lives!! How many people have died in the US because they were in distress but did not have cell phone coverage and were in a position where they could send a transmission to a satellite (e.g. clear view of the sky, etc.)?
  - asadlionpk 4y ago
    more than 1?
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    There are a substantial number of "lost in the wilderness"/"death by GPS" scenarios that fit exactly those requirements.
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    thousands a year die while lost in the wilderness in the US
    - ktta 4y ago
      Source? I see a lot less when I search for stats
      - micromacrofoot 4y ago
        ah yah I see conflicting resources now that I check, this says more like 1600 total missing, not dead https://www.biometrica.com/into-the-abyss-how-people-go-missing-in-americas-wilderness/ https://www.biometrica.com/into-the-abyss-how-people-go-miss...
        ktta 4y ago
        And that's in total. I don't know if we can get an accurate number of the number of legitimate uses of this service/year-- even by an order of magnitude. I'm pretty sure apple will advertise it in next year's iPhone event though
    - megablast 4y ago
      Clearly not true.
    - LorenPechtel 4y ago
      *Lost* in the wilderness? Off the top of my head (local news or cases I have heard of from fellow hikers): One keeled over dead, on the trail and part of a group. Two diabetics, alone but not lost. One found dead on the trail, apparently an insta-kill medical issue. One lost, never found, but I suspect he was actually a suicide. If not, he was trying for a Darwin. One near the road going for help after a vehicle breakdown. One got cliffed out trying to go for help after a vehicle breakdown. Not really lost, but unable to proceed. One disappeared, his body hasn't been found where he was expected to be but given his experience level lost is unlikely. Personally, I suspect he went off trail for something and keeled over. There have also been two skeletons pulled out of the desert, probably lost but it's unlikely we will ever know. Admittedly, a small sample but note that only 20% of those appear to be lost. I've also talked to a woman who just about became one of those statistics--new to the area and didn't respect the heat. Not lost. Most wilderness deaths are medical or accident, not lost, and a lot of national park deaths are traffic accidents.
  - tsol 4y ago
    If that one is someone you love, it's enough to be a miracle
  - fy20 4y ago
    Death isn't the only negative outcome here. Assisting those who need emergency help faster is a net benefit to society.
    - lxgr 4y ago
      Exactly. Search and rescue missions based on the itineraries, last known position reports etc. of missing hikers alone are incredibly resource intensive. It‘s not unlikely for members of the SAR team to get injured or even killed during such an operation.
    - johngalt_ 4y ago
      How do you know if it is a net benefit without knowing the costs?
      - netr0ute 4y ago
        If the cost of a lost life is infinite, then no operating costs could ever outweigh that.
        jrockway 4y ago
        I've seen a lot of studies that model human life with a dollar amount. It's depressingly low. I think I was reading a traffic study (can't find it) that modeled pedestrian deaths at $1M, in a city where many people walking around have a higher net worth than that (because of housing prices).
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Here’s a well known case in New York. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/29/nyregion/29crash.html https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/29/nyregion/29crash.html I had a similar issue in Maine a few years ago except it was summer and I just had to walk 30 minutes. It definitely happens.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Honestly that sounds like a better use case than some being described. It was clearly an emergency situation and someone could have presumably reached them relatively quickly. Maybe car breakdowns or getting stranded are the bigger deal.
tjohns 4y ago
The challenge here is that these satellite networks get a significant amount of their operating revenue from charging for emergency-only communication. Unlike 911, the satellite company itself is also responsible for hiring the dispatchers on the other end. It's not clear how the satellite networks could give it away for free under the current business model. (Assuming free meaning "any device can connect, regardless of subscription status". In this case, Apple is essentially subsidizing the service costs for their users, and only for a limited time - there is still a paid subscription on the backend.) It's worth noting that the government already offers free distress alerting via the COSPAS-SARSAT satellite system - though it's one-way communication only. It would be interesting if a future iteration of the system allowed for smaller antennas and two-way communication with the rescue coordination center dispatchers.
- newman8r 4y ago
  Are you referring to services like https://www.acrartex.com/406link/ https://www.acrartex.com/406link/ It's interesting because it was never intended to work like that, it's basically just a hack that uses a test signal to dispatch an "I'm ok" message
  - tjohns 4y ago
    No, as you mentioned, 406link is a commercial hack that detects a PLB's "test" message and uses that to trigger a pre-programmed "I'm ok" message. But that's not what I'm referring to. By one-way communication, I was referring to the default "I'm in distress, here's my coordinates, send help" message, which is the only message the system can officially transmit. There's no way to carry on a two-way conversation to collect further details, or even a mechanism to acknowledge the message - though due to a very robust system design, it's very unlikely the message wouldn't get received.
- papito 4y ago
  Yes, emergency rescue beacons. I have one whenever I am in the middle of nowhere. I had to use it once, believe it or not, when I almost died in the mother of all ironies - in the middle of Death Valley, California. The U.S. Air Force directed an ambulance in my direction from a nearby town. Have a COSPAS-SARSAT emergency beacon is all I am saying. They are expensive, but it's a one-time purchase. The service is free.

by gpt5 4y ago

spicybright 4y ago

It's even better because if there's one thing Apple is good at, it's getting people to copy them. Mandatory 911 sat service on phones that support will save a lot of lives!!

tablespoon 4y ago
> Mandatory 911 sat service on phones that support will save a lot of lives!! How many people have died in the US because they were in distress but did not have cell phone coverage and were in a position where they could send a transmission to a satellite (e.g. clear view of the sky, etc.)?
- asadlionpk 4y ago
  more than 1?
- crooked-v 4y ago
  There are a substantial number of "lost in the wilderness"/"death by GPS" scenarios that fit exactly those requirements.
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  thousands a year die while lost in the wilderness in the US
  - ktta 4y ago
    Source? I see a lot less when I search for stats
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago
      ah yah I see conflicting resources now that I check, this says more like 1600 total missing, not dead https://www.biometrica.com/into-the-abyss-how-people-go-missing-in-americas-wilderness/ https://www.biometrica.com/into-the-abyss-how-people-go-miss...
      - ktta 4y ago
        And that's in total. I don't know if we can get an accurate number of the number of legitimate uses of this service/year-- even by an order of magnitude. I'm pretty sure apple will advertise it in next year's iPhone event though
  - megablast 4y ago
    Clearly not true.
  - LorenPechtel 4y ago
    *Lost* in the wilderness? Off the top of my head (local news or cases I have heard of from fellow hikers): One keeled over dead, on the trail and part of a group. Two diabetics, alone but not lost. One found dead on the trail, apparently an insta-kill medical issue. One lost, never found, but I suspect he was actually a suicide. If not, he was trying for a Darwin. One near the road going for help after a vehicle breakdown. One got cliffed out trying to go for help after a vehicle breakdown. Not really lost, but unable to proceed. One disappeared, his body hasn't been found where he was expected to be but given his experience level lost is unlikely. Personally, I suspect he went off trail for something and keeled over. There have also been two skeletons pulled out of the desert, probably lost but it's unlikely we will ever know. Admittedly, a small sample but note that only 20% of those appear to be lost. I've also talked to a woman who just about became one of those statistics--new to the area and didn't respect the heat. Not lost. Most wilderness deaths are medical or accident, not lost, and a lot of national park deaths are traffic accidents.
- tsol 4y ago
  If that one is someone you love, it's enough to be a miracle
- fy20 4y ago
  Death isn't the only negative outcome here. Assisting those who need emergency help faster is a net benefit to society.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    Exactly. Search and rescue missions based on the itineraries, last known position reports etc. of missing hikers alone are incredibly resource intensive. It‘s not unlikely for members of the SAR team to get injured or even killed during such an operation.
  - johngalt_ 4y ago
    How do you know if it is a net benefit without knowing the costs?
    - netr0ute 4y ago
      If the cost of a lost life is infinite, then no operating costs could ever outweigh that.
      - jrockway 4y ago
        I've seen a lot of studies that model human life with a dollar amount. It's depressingly low. I think I was reading a traffic study (can't find it) that modeled pedestrian deaths at $1M, in a city where many people walking around have a higher net worth than that (because of housing prices).
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Here’s a well known case in New York. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/29/nyregion/29crash.html https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/29/nyregion/29crash.html I had a similar issue in Maine a few years ago except it was summer and I just had to walk 30 minutes. It definitely happens.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Honestly that sounds like a better use case than some being described. It was clearly an emergency situation and someone could have presumably reached them relatively quickly. Maybe car breakdowns or getting stranded are the bigger deal.

tjohns 4y ago

The challenge here is that these satellite networks get a significant amount of their operating revenue from charging for emergency-only communication. Unlike 911, the satellite company itself is also responsible for hiring the dispatchers on the other end. It's not clear how the satellite networks could give it away for free under the current business model. (Assuming free meaning "any device can connect, regardless of subscription status". In this case, Apple is essentially subsidizing the service costs for their users, and only for a limited time - there is still a paid subscription on the backend.) It's worth noting that the government already offers free distress alerting via the COSPAS-SARSAT satellite system - though it's one-way communication only. It would be interesting if a future iteration of the system allowed for smaller antennas and two-way communication with the rescue coordination center dispatchers.

newman8r 4y ago
Are you referring to services like https://www.acrartex.com/406link/ https://www.acrartex.com/406link/ It's interesting because it was never intended to work like that, it's basically just a hack that uses a test signal to dispatch an "I'm ok" message
- tjohns 4y ago
  No, as you mentioned, 406link is a commercial hack that detects a PLB's "test" message and uses that to trigger a pre-programmed "I'm ok" message. But that's not what I'm referring to. By one-way communication, I was referring to the default "I'm in distress, here's my coordinates, send help" message, which is the only message the system can officially transmit. There's no way to carry on a two-way conversation to collect further details, or even a mechanism to acknowledge the message - though due to a very robust system design, it's very unlikely the message wouldn't get received.
papito 4y ago
Yes, emergency rescue beacons. I have one whenever I am in the middle of nowhere. I had to use it once, believe it or not, when I almost died in the mother of all ironies - in the middle of Death Valley, California. The U.S. Air Force directed an ambulance in my direction from a nearby town. Have a COSPAS-SARSAT emergency beacon is all I am saying. They are expensive, but it's a one-time purchase. The service is free.