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> We're missing the ability to store private data. This is solved off-blockchain. > Tooling is highly lacking for anything beyond deploying a simple 100 line

> We're missing the ability to store private data. This is solved off-blockchain. > Tooling is highly lacking for anything beyond deploying a simple 100 line NFT contract. This is solved off-blockchain. > we'll start to see some traditional applications rebuilt in a way that gives users ownership of their own data. This is solved off-cloud, or if you pay for storage. I can download my photos and documents locally from Google Drive just fine. > Web3 means I have all the rights to my data You already do, if you store it off-cloud or pay for storage > applications can live on beyond their creators. This is solved off-cloud. I can still run executables from the 90s.

nwienert 4y ago
Less space than a nomad.
- mmastrac 4y ago
  Not every criticism is wrong, and that particular review would probably have been right if it was anyone but Apple behind the launch.
  - nwienert 4y ago
    Or Dropbox: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 I think my main point is it doesn’t matter if other things do it alright already. There’s a lot of energy behind putting together the whole package in the crypto area. I’m not saying it will end up working, but I am saying that any critique that tries to say it won’t work because disparate things X, Y and Z exist already is inherently unconvincing because it never comes down to whether some features exist in some form already. It’s always the final packaging, branding, and all sorts of vague appeals and ideals that give energy to something. And crypto, for all the leeches, certainly also has a lot of energy, funding, and smart people, and more than enough of appeals and ideals.
    - mmastrac 4y ago
      Web3 is a long way from either Dropbox or iPods. My point is that all of this stuff is done better and with much more polish in databases and existing tech. Perhaps one day web3 will come up with a killer app, but everything so far has been just enriching someone with a vested interest.
rvz 4y ago
> > We're missing the ability to store private data. I don't think anyone here said 'store private data on blockchain'. > This is solved off-cloud, or if you pay for storage. I can download my photos and documents locally from Google Drive just fine. Better not have your child's photos on Google or iCloud, and possibly reported on your device due to excessive CSAM checks [0] [1]. Their solutions have created more problems in the background which are no better, and will get worse with the big tech companies over time. Skiff looks like it is going in the right direction so far in how they are using IPFS, ENS, Mail, etc. [2] Watching them closely. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveil... [1] https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/1423071186616000513 https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/14230711866160005... [2] https://skiff.com https://skiff.com
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Then solve it off-cloud. These companies draw clear lines on acceptable use, and you agree to their TOS. You reserve no right to have service restored when you violate those terms, period.
  - rvz 4y ago
    > You reserve no right to have service restored when you violate those terms, period. You're right. Don't complain if Google Drive, iCloud, etc bans you via an AI or bot automatically over an alleged ToS violation. Same with Twitter and the rest of them or even payment companies like PayPal. When your account is banned, that is that. Period. As these services are free to do business with whoever they want, you are free to choose alternatives to these services, since at the end of the day, they will never change.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > Better not have your child's photos on Google or iCloud, and possibly reported on your device due to excessive CSAM checks. If a single "it went badly enough to wind up in the NYT" case means Google is a no-go, I've got really bad news for you about blockchains.
mNovak 4y ago
> This is solved off-cloud > You already do, if you store it off-cloud > This is solved off-cloud Yes, but I think the goal is to have these things AND be on-cloud
- techdragon 4y ago
  And I would like my cake to re-appear after eating it. But it doesn’t happen. While I’m not anti-web3 I’m sceptical the promised results will appear not for technical reasons but due to misaligned incentives. At the end of the day someone has to pay for the storage or compute and we’re back to systems of exploitative extraction by proxy. Your personal data pays for service X via advertising and you pay directly for service Y by volunteering cryptocurrency based information exchange tokens so that blah blah blah it’s normally just tokens automatically created to track what you do which makes it just the same as advertised, arguably more creepy. It’s a very lofty technical goal, I fear will fail for very normal human psychological reasons.

nwienert 4y ago

Less space than a nomad.

mmastrac 4y ago
Not every criticism is wrong, and that particular review would probably have been right if it was anyone but Apple behind the launch.
- nwienert 4y ago
  Or Dropbox: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 I think my main point is it doesn’t matter if other things do it alright already. There’s a lot of energy behind putting together the whole package in the crypto area. I’m not saying it will end up working, but I am saying that any critique that tries to say it won’t work because disparate things X, Y and Z exist already is inherently unconvincing because it never comes down to whether some features exist in some form already. It’s always the final packaging, branding, and all sorts of vague appeals and ideals that give energy to something. And crypto, for all the leeches, certainly also has a lot of energy, funding, and smart people, and more than enough of appeals and ideals.
  - mmastrac 4y ago
    Web3 is a long way from either Dropbox or iPods. My point is that all of this stuff is done better and with much more polish in databases and existing tech. Perhaps one day web3 will come up with a killer app, but everything so far has been just enriching someone with a vested interest.

rvz 4y ago

> > We're missing the ability to store private data. I don't think anyone here said 'store private data on blockchain'. > This is solved off-cloud, or if you pay for storage. I can download my photos and documents locally from Google Drive just fine. Better not have your child's photos on Google or iCloud, and possibly reported on your device due to excessive CSAM checks [0] [1]. Their solutions have created more problems in the background which are no better, and will get worse with the big tech companies over time. Skiff looks like it is going in the right direction so far in how they are using IPFS, ENS, Mail, etc. [2] Watching them closely. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveil... [1] https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/1423071186616000513 https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/14230711866160005... [2] https://skiff.com https://skiff.com

smoldesu 4y ago
Then solve it off-cloud. These companies draw clear lines on acceptable use, and you agree to their TOS. You reserve no right to have service restored when you violate those terms, period.
- rvz 4y ago
  > You reserve no right to have service restored when you violate those terms, period. You're right. Don't complain if Google Drive, iCloud, etc bans you via an AI or bot automatically over an alleged ToS violation. Same with Twitter and the rest of them or even payment companies like PayPal. When your account is banned, that is that. Period. As these services are free to do business with whoever they want, you are free to choose alternatives to these services, since at the end of the day, they will never change.
ceejayoz 4y ago
> Better not have your child's photos on Google or iCloud, and possibly reported on your device due to excessive CSAM checks. If a single "it went badly enough to wind up in the NYT" case means Google is a no-go, I've got really bad news for you about blockchains.

mNovak 4y ago

> This is solved off-cloud > You already do, if you store it off-cloud > This is solved off-cloud Yes, but I think the goal is to have these things AND be on-cloud

techdragon 4y ago
And I would like my cake to re-appear after eating it. But it doesn’t happen. While I’m not anti-web3 I’m sceptical the promised results will appear not for technical reasons but due to misaligned incentives. At the end of the day someone has to pay for the storage or compute and we’re back to systems of exploitative extraction by proxy. Your personal data pays for service X via advertising and you pay directly for service Y by volunteering cryptocurrency based information exchange tokens so that blah blah blah it’s normally just tokens automatically created to track what you do which makes it just the same as advertised, arguably more creepy. It’s a very lofty technical goal, I fear will fail for very normal human psychological reasons.