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The fanaticism of Rust devs makes me think it's probably massively overrated (see Node yesterday and Ruby/Rails the day before) and Go is associated with Google

The fanaticism of Rust devs makes me think it's probably massively overrated (see Node yesterday and Ruby/Rails the day before) and Go is associated with Google which gets a perhaps unfair but still unignorable knee-jerk reaction from me to avoid it. I don't know enough about Nim to pass judgment. Two reasons I decided to give Zig a try: The official chat channel is on IRC, instead of Discord or Slack (so the people involved care about efficiency, open standards, and avoiding trends/bandwagoning), and it has an early but promising-looking Swift UI-like cross-platform UI framework in development: https://github.com/capy-ui/capy https://github.com/capy-ui/capy

davidatbu 4y ago
I'm not at all trying to change your mind (I've never used Zig so I can't comment there), but just FYI: 1. Rust uses Zulip (ie, not Discord or Slack), 2. Rust doesn't lack for promising-looking, declarative/reactive UI frameworks: https://iced.rs/ https://iced.rs/, https://crates.io/crates/egui https://crates.io/crates/egui, for example.
- Arnavion 4y ago
  >1. Rust uses Zulip (ie, not Discord or Slack), The official Rust chat is on Discord. Now, to Cyberdog's point, there is an IRC channel on libera (that I'm also a part of) and it's even bigger than Zig's channel, but it's "unofficial" and they did ask for an official one. Like, Zig's channel has the advantage of being a direct line to andrewrk which you won't get from the Rust channel.
  - davidatbu 4y ago
    Thanks for the correction! I conflated what (I believe) some rust teams use as the thing that every thing in official rust uses. I think Rust uses both Discord and Zulip[0]. [0] https://zulip.com/case-studies/rust/ https://zulip.com/case-studies/rust/
  - tialaramex 4y ago
    There's no equivalent to a "direct line to andrewrk" because Rust does not have this one man setup. Culturally, there's more of a "pitch in to help" and less "ask before touching". So people are mostly looking for hand-holding, "How do I?" and "Is this correct?" rather than decisions and permission.
    - Arnavion 4y ago
      >There's no equivalent to a "direct line to andrewrk" because Rust does not have this one man setup. Nothing in my comment is about a "one man" setup. Core Rust devs hang out in the Discord server. They don't hang out in the IRC channel. >Culturally, there's more of a "pitch in to help" and less "ask before touching". So people are mostly looking for hand-holding, "How do I?" and "Is this correct?" rather than decisions and permission. I'm not sure why you're assuming that the Zig channel is about "decisions and permission", but it's not. It's about language discussion just like the Rust IRC channel and Rust Discord are.
      - tialaramex 4y ago
        My impression is that if I want to fix something in Zig, and Andrew decides it's not broken, well, too bad.
mwcampbell 4y ago
> The fanaticism of Rust devs makes me think it's probably massively overrated Or it's enthusiasm for something that's genuinely worth being excited about. Such things do come along from time to time. It's probably not a good idea to be permanently jaded, to assume that everything is zero-sum, that we can never again make progress by bending tradeoffs.

davidatbu 4y ago

I'm not at all trying to change your mind (I've never used Zig so I can't comment there), but just FYI: 1. Rust uses Zulip (ie, not Discord or Slack), 2. Rust doesn't lack for promising-looking, declarative/reactive UI frameworks: https://iced.rs/ https://iced.rs/, https://crates.io/crates/egui https://crates.io/crates/egui, for example.

Arnavion 4y ago
>1. Rust uses Zulip (ie, not Discord or Slack), The official Rust chat is on Discord. Now, to Cyberdog's point, there is an IRC channel on libera (that I'm also a part of) and it's even bigger than Zig's channel, but it's "unofficial" and they did ask for an official one. Like, Zig's channel has the advantage of being a direct line to andrewrk which you won't get from the Rust channel.
- davidatbu 4y ago
  Thanks for the correction! I conflated what (I believe) some rust teams use as the thing that every thing in official rust uses. I think Rust uses both Discord and Zulip[0]. [0] https://zulip.com/case-studies/rust/ https://zulip.com/case-studies/rust/
- tialaramex 4y ago
  There's no equivalent to a "direct line to andrewrk" because Rust does not have this one man setup. Culturally, there's more of a "pitch in to help" and less "ask before touching". So people are mostly looking for hand-holding, "How do I?" and "Is this correct?" rather than decisions and permission.
  - Arnavion 4y ago
    >There's no equivalent to a "direct line to andrewrk" because Rust does not have this one man setup. Nothing in my comment is about a "one man" setup. Core Rust devs hang out in the Discord server. They don't hang out in the IRC channel. >Culturally, there's more of a "pitch in to help" and less "ask before touching". So people are mostly looking for hand-holding, "How do I?" and "Is this correct?" rather than decisions and permission. I'm not sure why you're assuming that the Zig channel is about "decisions and permission", but it's not. It's about language discussion just like the Rust IRC channel and Rust Discord are.
    - tialaramex 4y ago
      My impression is that if I want to fix something in Zig, and Andrew decides it's not broken, well, too bad.

mwcampbell 4y ago

> The fanaticism of Rust devs makes me think it's probably massively overrated Or it's enthusiasm for something that's genuinely worth being excited about. Such things do come along from time to time. It's probably not a good idea to be permanently jaded, to assume that everything is zero-sum, that we can never again make progress by bending tradeoffs.