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So don't use Zig? I don't get why you're so angry about something someone else likes. Just don't use it or look at it! So easy...

by ok_dad 4y ago

RussianCow 4y ago
If I didn't use any programming language that I hated any part of, I wouldn't be able to write code.
md224 4y ago
What if the person you're replying to really, really likes Zig except for this one aspect of it?
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Then they shouldn't get so mad at something that's merely annoying; it's bad for the heart and circulatory system.
  - geodel 4y ago
    Yeah, exactly right! I mean we all adjust people, places, things all the time. There is nothing special about programing languages that it has to be perfect fit for each feature one desires.
  - runald 4y ago
    Is that why you ignored all the other responses to your comment?
chongli 4y ago
So don't use Zig? I see this comment a lot in response to feedback: "Don't like it? Don't use it!" Every single time, it reads to me as "stop complaining!" For as many times as I've seen the comment, I haven't been able to read it any other way. Am I being uncharitable or is it really just a clear-cut attempt to silence debate?
- geodel 4y ago
  Well it would depend on context. For a FOSS software in domain where there are tons of other options, it is much easier to use what one likes and ignore what one doesn't. So calling it silencing the debate sounds too strong when software in question is not some controlling the world type. On the other hand in case cloud services like those provided Google/FB/Twitter/Cloudflare etc it is much more difficult to just go with "Don't use if you don't like" because not only there are not much alternative but also because sometimes Cloud service providers act in unison. So if one is pushed out from a service they are likely to be pushed from all other services too.
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    Yea, I was under the assumption there are literally thousands of programming languages and you can fork most of them when I replied. I’m not usually a “just don’t use it” kind of guy, but in this case it’s valid, imo.
  - chongli 4y ago
    "Don't like it? Just fork it!" is a variant I see a lot in the FOSS world. It's equally pernicious in my view. Either you end up maintaining your own fork that nobody uses (and who wants to do that) or the fork is successful and half the community starts hating you for causing more fragmentation. Perhaps the most recent example of this I can think of is neovim, though in the language world python 2 vs 3 is so infamous that people have started hating the entire community from the outside. All of this says to me that Zig is taking the wrong approach. Making highly controversial, opinionated features the standard with no way to opt out just leads to these endless debates. Languages (or any tools, for that matter) that stay out of the debate and just give everyone a flag tend to have much more welcoming communities.
    - Tozen 4y ago
      I agree with a lot of this, in terms of the polarization and tribalism, which is often the result. Unfortunately, there is little that can be usually done, except use other programming languages (which are more agreeable) or fork/make your own.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
Because only get upset about this because they love zig

So don't use Zig? I don't get why you're so angry about something someone else likes. Just don't use it or look at it! So easy...

by ok_dad 4y ago

So don't use Zig? I don't get why you're so angry about something someone else likes. Just don't use it or look at it! So easy...

RussianCow 4y ago

If I didn't use any programming language that I hated any part of, I wouldn't be able to write code.

md224 4y ago

What if the person you're replying to really, really likes Zig except for this one aspect of it?

ok_dad 4y ago
Then they shouldn't get so mad at something that's merely annoying; it's bad for the heart and circulatory system.
- geodel 4y ago
  Yeah, exactly right! I mean we all adjust people, places, things all the time. There is nothing special about programing languages that it has to be perfect fit for each feature one desires.
- runald 4y ago
  Is that why you ignored all the other responses to your comment?

chongli 4y ago

So don't use Zig? I see this comment a lot in response to feedback: "Don't like it? Don't use it!" Every single time, it reads to me as "stop complaining!" For as many times as I've seen the comment, I haven't been able to read it any other way. Am I being uncharitable or is it really just a clear-cut attempt to silence debate?

geodel 4y ago
Well it would depend on context. For a FOSS software in domain where there are tons of other options, it is much easier to use what one likes and ignore what one doesn't. So calling it silencing the debate sounds too strong when software in question is not some controlling the world type. On the other hand in case cloud services like those provided Google/FB/Twitter/Cloudflare etc it is much more difficult to just go with "Don't use if you don't like" because not only there are not much alternative but also because sometimes Cloud service providers act in unison. So if one is pushed out from a service they are likely to be pushed from all other services too.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Yea, I was under the assumption there are literally thousands of programming languages and you can fork most of them when I replied. I’m not usually a “just don’t use it” kind of guy, but in this case it’s valid, imo.
- chongli 4y ago
  "Don't like it? Just fork it!" is a variant I see a lot in the FOSS world. It's equally pernicious in my view. Either you end up maintaining your own fork that nobody uses (and who wants to do that) or the fork is successful and half the community starts hating you for causing more fragmentation. Perhaps the most recent example of this I can think of is neovim, though in the language world python 2 vs 3 is so infamous that people have started hating the entire community from the outside. All of this says to me that Zig is taking the wrong approach. Making highly controversial, opinionated features the standard with no way to opt out just leads to these endless debates. Languages (or any tools, for that matter) that stay out of the debate and just give everyone a flag tend to have much more welcoming communities.
  - Tozen 4y ago
    I agree with a lot of this, in terms of the polarization and tribalism, which is often the result. Unfortunately, there is little that can be usually done, except use other programming languages (which are more agreeable) or fork/make your own.

LAC-Tech 4y ago

Because only get upset about this because they love zig