5 ms·

One thing: my TV uses direct current, so does my computer, monitor, sound system, phone charger, all my LED lights... most electronic devices are DC now. The on

One thing: my TV uses direct current, so does my computer, monitor, sound system, phone charger, all my LED lights... most electronic devices are DC now. The only appliances still using AC are the higher powered ones or those which have a motor. This means: we have numerous converters on our devices. We are paying the price for them and not all of them are specially efficient or durable. It is time to standardize a multi voltage DC connector so I can connect all my electronic devices directly to mains without the need of any converter. My LED lamps would be significantly less expensive, more durable and (maybe) more efficient if they didn't have to house a small converter inside the fake bulb. Sometimes you have to replace the "power board" of your TV... it shouldn't even exist if we had a standard for DC mains. It is time to pressure power distributors to provide huge powerful converters just like they do with transformers, This way we could have quality cheap DC inside our homes without any of these numerous redundant dubious quality converters we need today.

mmastrac 4y ago
I've gone back and forth in my life on this. I think we need parallel AC and DC so we can support loads that are inductive. Send 48V in parallel with 110V AC and invent a socket that gives you either one
tesseract 4y ago
Long distance (including room-to-room) distribution of low voltage DC power is inefficient due to I^2*R losses in wiring unless impractically large wire sizes are used. There may be some marginal efficiency gains to be had with high voltage DC supply and DC-DC converters in electronic devices (this architecture is used in some datacenters) but house-wide distribution of say 5V is impractical. Even within a system the size of a desktop PC, the architecture that has been determined to maximize efficiency and cost savings is an AC-to-12VDC power supply box, feeding additional DC-DC converters that produce the necessary logic supply voltages (~1.2V) as physically close to the actual load as possible.
- Thrymr 4y ago
  A standard DC plug that could be installed on an AC line with efficient converters and no zero-load power draw would be nice. Unfortunately the closest thing we have to a standard DC power plug is USB-A.
  - jbverschoor 4y ago
    Just use a wall socket with usb?
- tremon 4y ago
  to maximize efficiency and cost savings is an AC-to-12VDC power supply box Actually, no. That power supply box contains an AC-to-DC rectifier, followed by a DC-to-DC power convertor: high-frequency convertors are much more efficient than 50Hz transformers and can be built with much smaller components than a toroidal transformer. Yes, you don't want 5V power lines in your walls, but 150V DC would still be more efficient for most devices than 120V AC. The reason (other than inertia) why we probably won't do that is because of polarity: AC plugs can be inserted either way; DC plugs might destroy the equipment if inserted the wrong way, and most existing plugs allow both orientations. Not sure many people would like to "re-learn" how to insert a power plug. But, truth be told, I have been thinking about getting myself certified as an electrical engineer so I can install DC voltage lines in my home: I already have DC solar panels (48V), and DC line batteries. It's awfully wasteful to have AC convertors on them all, just because that's the standard we've settled on.
  - tesseract 4y ago
    Yes, that is the architecture of a modern offline SMPS. But the rectification losses are minimal compared to other losses in a PSU and there are options, like active rectification, to improve efficiency in that block if needed. I will concede there may be advantages to centralizing power factor correction. But on the flip side, components like circuit breakers, connectors, and switches for high voltage DC face arc quench challenges that their AC equivalents basically don't at domestic line voltages and currents due to the zero crossing. In-home batteries are a case where the benefits of DC wiring may outweigh the drawbacks though. That is also the basic situation in those datacenters I mentioned, where power to the racks all comes from a UPS system.
jayd16 4y ago
Replace all your outlets with ones that have USB-C charge ports, then switch all your appliances over. Mostly joking but I'm sure you could find some USB-C lamps.
jws 4y ago
A better answer is three phase power. That reduces the size of inductors and capacitors needed in the DC converters while still letting you use a transformer to drop from the highest acceptable line voltage (to minimize copper use/minimize losses) to whatever the device really wants. Bonus: Three phase transmits more power per "mass of copper" than single phase. Extra bonus: You will never have the stupid starting capacitor fail on any of your larger domestic motors!
cesarb 4y ago
> It is time to standardize a multi voltage DC connector so I can connect all my electronic devices directly to mains without the need of any converter. We actually have that connector already: it's the USB-C connector, together with the USB-PD protocol. And with its Programmable Power Supply mode, an arbitrary voltage can be requested. > It is time to pressure power distributors to provide huge powerful converters just like they do with transformers, This way we could have quality cheap DC inside our homes without any of these numerous redundant dubious quality converters we need today. You'd still need one per device, though. At the voltages and currents used by most electronic devices, the voltage drop between separate wall sockets would be enough to have one or more of them be outside the correct voltage range (to start with, you'd need a sense wire to each socket so that the power source knows how much to increase the source voltage to compensate for the power drop in the wiring; from which socket would the sense wire come if a single DC/DC converter is supplying more than one?). Not to mention that it would either waste a lot of power as heat (within your walls), or require thick (and more expensive) cables. And that's before considering that what some devices really want is constant current, not constant voltage (IIRC, LED lamps are one example of that). It makes much more sense to distribute a higher voltage, and convert it to a lower voltage next to the device itself. It's more efficient, allows for thinner cabling, and since you're already converting voltages, you can use AC which has its own advantages.

mmastrac 4y ago

I've gone back and forth in my life on this. I think we need parallel AC and DC so we can support loads that are inductive. Send 48V in parallel with 110V AC and invent a socket that gives you either one

tesseract 4y ago

Long distance (including room-to-room) distribution of low voltage DC power is inefficient due to I^2*R losses in wiring unless impractically large wire sizes are used. There may be some marginal efficiency gains to be had with high voltage DC supply and DC-DC converters in electronic devices (this architecture is used in some datacenters) but house-wide distribution of say 5V is impractical. Even within a system the size of a desktop PC, the architecture that has been determined to maximize efficiency and cost savings is an AC-to-12VDC power supply box, feeding additional DC-DC converters that produce the necessary logic supply voltages (~1.2V) as physically close to the actual load as possible.

Thrymr 4y ago
A standard DC plug that could be installed on an AC line with efficient converters and no zero-load power draw would be nice. Unfortunately the closest thing we have to a standard DC power plug is USB-A.
- jbverschoor 4y ago
  Just use a wall socket with usb?
tremon 4y ago
to maximize efficiency and cost savings is an AC-to-12VDC power supply box Actually, no. That power supply box contains an AC-to-DC rectifier, followed by a DC-to-DC power convertor: high-frequency convertors are much more efficient than 50Hz transformers and can be built with much smaller components than a toroidal transformer. Yes, you don't want 5V power lines in your walls, but 150V DC would still be more efficient for most devices than 120V AC. The reason (other than inertia) why we probably won't do that is because of polarity: AC plugs can be inserted either way; DC plugs might destroy the equipment if inserted the wrong way, and most existing plugs allow both orientations. Not sure many people would like to "re-learn" how to insert a power plug. But, truth be told, I have been thinking about getting myself certified as an electrical engineer so I can install DC voltage lines in my home: I already have DC solar panels (48V), and DC line batteries. It's awfully wasteful to have AC convertors on them all, just because that's the standard we've settled on.
- tesseract 4y ago
  Yes, that is the architecture of a modern offline SMPS. But the rectification losses are minimal compared to other losses in a PSU and there are options, like active rectification, to improve efficiency in that block if needed. I will concede there may be advantages to centralizing power factor correction. But on the flip side, components like circuit breakers, connectors, and switches for high voltage DC face arc quench challenges that their AC equivalents basically don't at domestic line voltages and currents due to the zero crossing. In-home batteries are a case where the benefits of DC wiring may outweigh the drawbacks though. That is also the basic situation in those datacenters I mentioned, where power to the racks all comes from a UPS system.

jayd16 4y ago

Replace all your outlets with ones that have USB-C charge ports, then switch all your appliances over. Mostly joking but I'm sure you could find some USB-C lamps.

jws 4y ago

A better answer is three phase power. That reduces the size of inductors and capacitors needed in the DC converters while still letting you use a transformer to drop from the highest acceptable line voltage (to minimize copper use/minimize losses) to whatever the device really wants. Bonus: Three phase transmits more power per "mass of copper" than single phase. Extra bonus: You will never have the stupid starting capacitor fail on any of your larger domestic motors!

cesarb 4y ago

> It is time to standardize a multi voltage DC connector so I can connect all my electronic devices directly to mains without the need of any converter. We actually have that connector already: it's the USB-C connector, together with the USB-PD protocol. And with its Programmable Power Supply mode, an arbitrary voltage can be requested. > It is time to pressure power distributors to provide huge powerful converters just like they do with transformers, This way we could have quality cheap DC inside our homes without any of these numerous redundant dubious quality converters we need today. You'd still need one per device, though. At the voltages and currents used by most electronic devices, the voltage drop between separate wall sockets would be enough to have one or more of them be outside the correct voltage range (to start with, you'd need a sense wire to each socket so that the power source knows how much to increase the source voltage to compensate for the power drop in the wiring; from which socket would the sense wire come if a single DC/DC converter is supplying more than one?). Not to mention that it would either waste a lot of power as heat (within your walls), or require thick (and more expensive) cables. And that's before considering that what some devices really want is constant current, not constant voltage (IIRC, LED lamps are one example of that). It makes much more sense to distribute a higher voltage, and convert it to a lower voltage next to the device itself. It's more efficient, allows for thinner cabling, and since you're already converting voltages, you can use AC which has its own advantages.