3 ms·

There are two main in-situ uses of hydrogen that come to mind that don't require problematic long-distance transport and storage: nitrogen fertilizer production

There are two main in-situ uses of hydrogen that come to mind that don't require problematic long-distance transport and storage: nitrogen fertilizer production, and hydrogen-based direct iron reduction. For example: (2021) "Green Ammonia and the Electrification of the Haber-Bosch Process Reduce Carbon Emissions" https://guidehouseinsights.com/news-and-views/green-ammonia-and-the-electrification-of-the-haber-bosch-process-reduce-carbon-emissions https://guidehouseinsights.com/news-and-views/green-ammonia-... (2022) "Hierarchical nature of hydrogen-based direct reduction of iron oxides" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359646222000720 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135964622...

bobthepanda 4y ago
Well, there‘s also the issue that batteries for boats or airplanes result in either a massive capacity cut, or something too big to fly, float, or fit through the Suez and Panama Canals.
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  Long range shipping is more solvable than your sky-is-falling astroturfing implies: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/03/18/fleetzeros-container-ship-battery-swapping-scheme-may-help-electrify-shipping/ https://cleantechnica.com/2022/03/18/fleetzeros-container-sh... Much like 90% of BEV trips not needing 300 miles of range, most shipping routes actually don't need 1000s of miles of range, they can hopscotch between ports and swap batteries quickly at the ports with some shipping conatiner sized battery that sits on the top of the ship (presumably with some rapid swap equipment that wouldn't require docking). Hydrogen will probably rule the skies though, I'll grant you that, for any long range flights. But fuel costs dominate aviation, and if shorter ranges can be addressed with batteries and some fundamental power cost advantages, then BEVs can be applied to aviation, where appropriate.
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    Stopping in ports costs time and money (port space is limited, mooring in open ocean isn‘t a good idea if you can help it), which was one of the big reasons ships quickly dropped coal in favor of liquid fuels. I don‘t know that putting heavy batteries on the top of the ship is a great idea. A lot of work already goes into making sure a ship is not too top heavy. Fuel costs dominate aviation and shipping. If it were physically possible to not rely on a fuel with huge price volatility it would be nice. Unfortunately battery airplanes seem right now to be limited to replacing single engine planes on small short hops like Boston to Martha‘s Vineyard.
p_l 4y ago
Few years ago NIST did a study on hydrogen vehicle charging stations, and they found out that the best design was to place electrolysers locally instead of transporting it. Such a station could effectively double as BEV charging station, as it's main requirements would be beefy grid connection plus water source, with tanks being used only to buffer hydrogen.

bobthepanda 4y ago

Well, there‘s also the issue that batteries for boats or airplanes result in either a massive capacity cut, or something too big to fly, float, or fit through the Suez and Panama Canals.

AtlasBarfed 4y ago
Long range shipping is more solvable than your sky-is-falling astroturfing implies: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/03/18/fleetzeros-container-ship-battery-swapping-scheme-may-help-electrify-shipping/ https://cleantechnica.com/2022/03/18/fleetzeros-container-sh... Much like 90% of BEV trips not needing 300 miles of range, most shipping routes actually don't need 1000s of miles of range, they can hopscotch between ports and swap batteries quickly at the ports with some shipping conatiner sized battery that sits on the top of the ship (presumably with some rapid swap equipment that wouldn't require docking). Hydrogen will probably rule the skies though, I'll grant you that, for any long range flights. But fuel costs dominate aviation, and if shorter ranges can be addressed with batteries and some fundamental power cost advantages, then BEVs can be applied to aviation, where appropriate.
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  Stopping in ports costs time and money (port space is limited, mooring in open ocean isn‘t a good idea if you can help it), which was one of the big reasons ships quickly dropped coal in favor of liquid fuels. I don‘t know that putting heavy batteries on the top of the ship is a great idea. A lot of work already goes into making sure a ship is not too top heavy. Fuel costs dominate aviation and shipping. If it were physically possible to not rely on a fuel with huge price volatility it would be nice. Unfortunately battery airplanes seem right now to be limited to replacing single engine planes on small short hops like Boston to Martha‘s Vineyard.

p_l 4y ago

Few years ago NIST did a study on hydrogen vehicle charging stations, and they found out that the best design was to place electrolysers locally instead of transporting it. Such a station could effectively double as BEV charging station, as it's main requirements would be beefy grid connection plus water source, with tanks being used only to buffer hydrogen.