3 ms·

Life expectancy is a terrible measure for quality of healthcare. It ignore so many other factors. The only way it could be a suitable measure if you assumed e

by refurb 4y ago

Life expectancy is a terrible measure for quality of healthcare. It ignore so many other factors. The only way it could be a suitable measure if you assumed every human in every country was the same except for the healthcare they receive. It's pretty clear they aren't - lifestyle, smoking rates, alcohol and drug abuse, accidents, suicides, genetics. You’re far better to look at things like “survival after cancer diagnosis” where the US has some of the world’s best outcomes. https://www.healio.com/news/hematology-oncology/20180131/us-cancer-survival-rates-remain-among-highest-in-world https://www.healio.com/news/hematology-oncology/20180131/us-...

specialist 4y ago
> Life expectancy is a terrible measure for quality of healthcare. ...lifestyle, smoking rates, alcohol and drug abuse, accidents, suicides, genetics. Only if we assume public health is unrelated to individual health.
- refurb 4y ago
  OK, so if we assume that, then is public health worse in Europe because smoking rates are higher than the US? How about higher alcohol consumption? Using life expectancy to judge the quality of a healthcare system or quality of public health efforts is like judging car quality by how nice the body work is. It's a component, but a relatively minor one in overall quality.
  - specialist 4y ago
    Why are you asking me when you could just google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... Western Europe does better, Eastern Europe does worse. Pretty much as one would expect. -- Your prior "5 year cancer survival rate" was pretty random. The cherry picking of one favorable stat while ignoring the mountain of counterfactuals. I was confused. Then I spotted this. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/us-vs-europe-life-expectancy-and-cancer-survival/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/us-vs-europe-life-expectancy-... Aha. Just another "libertarian" talking point. Good grief.
    - refurb 4y ago
      You're arguing in circles and not making a lot of sense. First I argued that life expectancy isn't a good measure because of lifestyle, then you say "public health should address those", then I argued Europe does worse than the US on several public health metrics like smoking rates and alcohol consumption, then you go back to life expectancy. I have no idea the point your making because you're failing to actually provide counterfactuals.
sgerenser 4y ago
Good article on the topic of assigning a cause-and-effect relationship between life expectancy and health care systems: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-03-21/does-the-u-s-overpay-for-health-care-not-really https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-03-21/does-t...
- specialist 4y ago
  I prefer the non-snark, non-partisan version of that narrative. https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low

by refurb 4y ago

specialist 4y ago

> Life expectancy is a terrible measure for quality of healthcare. ...lifestyle, smoking rates, alcohol and drug abuse, accidents, suicides, genetics. Only if we assume public health is unrelated to individual health.

refurb 4y ago
OK, so if we assume that, then is public health worse in Europe because smoking rates are higher than the US? How about higher alcohol consumption? Using life expectancy to judge the quality of a healthcare system or quality of public health efforts is like judging car quality by how nice the body work is. It's a component, but a relatively minor one in overall quality.
- specialist 4y ago
  Why are you asking me when you could just google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... Western Europe does better, Eastern Europe does worse. Pretty much as one would expect. -- Your prior "5 year cancer survival rate" was pretty random. The cherry picking of one favorable stat while ignoring the mountain of counterfactuals. I was confused. Then I spotted this. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/us-vs-europe-life-expectancy-and-cancer-survival/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/us-vs-europe-life-expectancy-... Aha. Just another "libertarian" talking point. Good grief.
  - refurb 4y ago
    You're arguing in circles and not making a lot of sense. First I argued that life expectancy isn't a good measure because of lifestyle, then you say "public health should address those", then I argued Europe does worse than the US on several public health metrics like smoking rates and alcohol consumption, then you go back to life expectancy. I have no idea the point your making because you're failing to actually provide counterfactuals.

sgerenser 4y ago

Good article on the topic of assigning a cause-and-effect relationship between life expectancy and health care systems: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-03-21/does-the-u-s-overpay-for-health-care-not-really https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-03-21/does-t...

specialist 4y ago
I prefer the non-snark, non-partisan version of that narrative. https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low