7 ms·

The problem is that this is not something Apple wants to have on the App Store. They reject apps they deem arbitrarily unsuitable all the time.

by emsy 4y ago

4eleven7 4y ago
Untrue. As long as it meets the technical requirements (ie, not using private APIs, doesn't excessively drain battery etc), and the licensing issues aren't a problem (some OSS licenses are an issue, as well as using the Quake assets may be an issue), there is no reason why Apple wouldn't approve a game for the Apple Watch on the App Store.
- tiborsaas 4y ago
  They reject apps for being too simple so meeting technical requirements is clearly not enough.
  - 4eleven7 4y ago
    Yes, they publish their guidelines which states as such… but how is Quake 1 too simple? Downvote all you want, but within the context of Quake 1 being approved on the Apple Watch, “too simple” isn’t relevant.
    - tiborsaas 4y ago
      The point is that they can reject you for subjective reasons even if you fully comply technically.
      - 4eleven7 4y ago
        I've never heard, or seen that before. Everything I've ever seen rejected by Apple (either personally from my own apps, clients, or from press reports) has always been a guideline issue. So, "Subjective reasons" such as? Example? Here is an example of a 3D game running on the Apple Watch, that was approved by Apple, on the App Store, which looks rather "Quake like". Mindkeeper: The lurking fear (Apple Watch)[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mindkeeper-the-lurking-fear/id https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mindkeeper-the-lurking-fear/id...]
- saagarjha 4y ago
  Apple is more than willing to reject apps that follow all the guidelines.
  - 4eleven7 4y ago
    Can you show an example? I’ve been an iOS developer for 10 years, and I’ve only ever seen/been rejected for things that fall foul of the guidelines, never arbitrarily.
    - saagarjha 4y ago
      Apple is unable to interpret their guidelines consistently. We ran into this with iSH a while back: https://ish.app/blog/app-store-removal https://ish.app/blog/app-store-removal
      - 4eleven7 4y ago
        And yet, you aren't rejected, and are in the store. While their interpretation of their guidelines can be ropey, as is anything handled by a human, my point still stands. Quake 1 would be allowed on the App Store.
        saagarjha 4y ago
        What you’re probably missing is the two weeks of concerted effort we put in to design an appeal and then a PR campaign to get Apple to actually listen to us. iSH would not be on the store otherwise.
        4eleven7 4y ago
        I'm not missing anything. iSH is very much an edge case. My entire point was that Quake would be allowed on the Apple Watch via the App Store. EDIT: To clarify 'very much an edge case', I mean, you can see how a non-technical reviewer at Apple may view iSH as a program that executes remote code. While you or I may know better, and it is unfortunate that you had to go through that process in the first instance, you can see why it happened compared to a standard todo list, or a typical web-client based app.
- FinalBriefing 4y ago
  Don't they reject apps that are "out of scope" for the device they run on? The Watch isn't made to run 3D games, even if that is possible. It's a "bad experience", even if it is a cool technical demo.
  - 4eleven7 4y ago
    No, they don't. There are 3D games running on the Apple Watch, available in the App Store. Mindkeeper: The lurking fear (Apple Watch)[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mindkeeper-the-lurking-fear/id1473252201?platform=appleWatch https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mindkeeper-the-lurking-fear/id...]
yreg 4y ago
What makes you believe Apple would reject this app? (provided it used properly licensed assets)
- emsy 4y ago
  https://hn.algolia.com/?q=apple+reject https://hn.algolia.com/?q=apple+reject
  - yreg 4y ago
    What makes you believe Apple would reject THIS app?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - AndyJames 4y ago
      Because it's not original license owner. They would have to provide licenses for everything used plus Apple may reject it just based on "not matching app guidelines". Apple banned even console emulators even tho technically there's nothing legally wrong with emulator on it's own, same for torrent downloaders, Kodi etc. If Apple have any doubts about legality of app they'll just ban it
      - yreg 4y ago
        >They would have to provide licenses for everything used I said "provided it used properly licensed assets". Apple has accepted compiled open source projects before, even from people other than the authors e.g. OpenTTD[0]. >Apple may reject it just based on "not matching app guidelines". We all know Apple might reject an app for any reason it wishes. This is a poor answer to support a claim that it wouldn't want this specific app. >Apple banned even console emulators even tho technically there's nothing legally wrong with emulator Emulators where you add game images yourself were always forbidden. "2.5.2 Apps […] may not download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app"[1] >torrent downloaders, Kodi This is an entirely different topic than Quake. [0] - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/openttd/id1585549844 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/openttd/id1585549844 [1] - https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#software-requirements https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#sof...

The problem is that this is not something Apple wants to have on the App Store. They reject apps they deem arbitrarily unsuitable all the time.

by emsy 4y ago

The problem is that this is not something Apple wants to have on the App Store. They reject apps they deem arbitrarily unsuitable all the time.

4eleven7 4y ago

Untrue. As long as it meets the technical requirements (ie, not using private APIs, doesn't excessively drain battery etc), and the licensing issues aren't a problem (some OSS licenses are an issue, as well as using the Quake assets may be an issue), there is no reason why Apple wouldn't approve a game for the Apple Watch on the App Store.

tiborsaas 4y ago
They reject apps for being too simple so meeting technical requirements is clearly not enough.
- 4eleven7 4y ago
  Yes, they publish their guidelines which states as such… but how is Quake 1 too simple? Downvote all you want, but within the context of Quake 1 being approved on the Apple Watch, “too simple” isn’t relevant.
  - tiborsaas 4y ago
    The point is that they can reject you for subjective reasons even if you fully comply technically.
    - 4eleven7 4y ago
      I've never heard, or seen that before. Everything I've ever seen rejected by Apple (either personally from my own apps, clients, or from press reports) has always been a guideline issue. So, "Subjective reasons" such as? Example? Here is an example of a 3D game running on the Apple Watch, that was approved by Apple, on the App Store, which looks rather "Quake like". Mindkeeper: The lurking fear (Apple Watch)[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mindkeeper-the-lurking-fear/id https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mindkeeper-the-lurking-fear/id...]
saagarjha 4y ago
Apple is more than willing to reject apps that follow all the guidelines.
- 4eleven7 4y ago
  Can you show an example? I’ve been an iOS developer for 10 years, and I’ve only ever seen/been rejected for things that fall foul of the guidelines, never arbitrarily.
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    Apple is unable to interpret their guidelines consistently. We ran into this with iSH a while back: https://ish.app/blog/app-store-removal https://ish.app/blog/app-store-removal
    - 4eleven7 4y ago
      And yet, you aren't rejected, and are in the store. While their interpretation of their guidelines can be ropey, as is anything handled by a human, my point still stands. Quake 1 would be allowed on the App Store.
      - saagarjha 4y ago
        What you’re probably missing is the two weeks of concerted effort we put in to design an appeal and then a PR campaign to get Apple to actually listen to us. iSH would not be on the store otherwise.
        4eleven7 4y ago
        I'm not missing anything. iSH is very much an edge case. My entire point was that Quake would be allowed on the Apple Watch via the App Store. EDIT: To clarify 'very much an edge case', I mean, you can see how a non-technical reviewer at Apple may view iSH as a program that executes remote code. While you or I may know better, and it is unfortunate that you had to go through that process in the first instance, you can see why it happened compared to a standard todo list, or a typical web-client based app.
FinalBriefing 4y ago
Don't they reject apps that are "out of scope" for the device they run on? The Watch isn't made to run 3D games, even if that is possible. It's a "bad experience", even if it is a cool technical demo.
- 4eleven7 4y ago
  No, they don't. There are 3D games running on the Apple Watch, available in the App Store. Mindkeeper: The lurking fear (Apple Watch)[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mindkeeper-the-lurking-fear/id1473252201?platform=appleWatch https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mindkeeper-the-lurking-fear/id...]

yreg 4y ago

What makes you believe Apple would reject this app? (provided it used properly licensed assets)

emsy 4y ago
https://hn.algolia.com/?q=apple+reject https://hn.algolia.com/?q=apple+reject
- yreg 4y ago
  What makes you believe Apple would reject THIS app?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - AndyJames 4y ago
    Because it's not original license owner. They would have to provide licenses for everything used plus Apple may reject it just based on "not matching app guidelines". Apple banned even console emulators even tho technically there's nothing legally wrong with emulator on it's own, same for torrent downloaders, Kodi etc. If Apple have any doubts about legality of app they'll just ban it
    - yreg 4y ago
      >They would have to provide licenses for everything used I said "provided it used properly licensed assets". Apple has accepted compiled open source projects before, even from people other than the authors e.g. OpenTTD[0]. >Apple may reject it just based on "not matching app guidelines". We all know Apple might reject an app for any reason it wishes. This is a poor answer to support a claim that it wouldn't want this specific app. >Apple banned even console emulators even tho technically there's nothing legally wrong with emulator Emulators where you add game images yourself were always forbidden. "2.5.2 Apps […] may not download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app"[1] >torrent downloaders, Kodi This is an entirely different topic than Quake. [0] - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/openttd/id1585549844 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/openttd/id1585549844 [1] - https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#software-requirements https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#sof...