4 ms·

>the comparison with the Poll Tax is somewhat irrelevant because the poll tax was 100% dreamed up by the govt... So was the decision to fight an economic war a

>the comparison with the Poll Tax is somewhat irrelevant because the poll tax was 100% dreamed up by the govt... So was the decision to fight an economic war against Europe's major energy supplier >Energy is however a commodity, and prices are set internationally either by private companies, or other govts... What's not been mentioned in the other comments is that, in addition to the 30% price hikes on the actual cost of the electricity/gas we use at home, there has also been a similar price hike on the Standing Charge, which is the daily fee you pay, just for having your home connected to the grid. You continue to pay this even if you don't use any electricity or gas whatsoever. I think this was the straw that broke the camel's back for many people. When the energy companies took advantage of the raising of the energy price cap to hike the costs of the actual energy they supply by 30% that was bad enough. But the fact they also took the opportunity to slap a similar increase on the Standing Charge was despicable.

danaris 4y ago
> So was the decision to fight an economic war against Europe's major energy supplier No, that was Russia's choice. They chose to invade Ukraine with the full and inexcusable intent of occupying territory. Opposing this is not that different from opposing the occupation of Poland nearly a century ago, and boohooing about how it hurts the economy is just so transparently self-serving at the expense of the Ukrainian people and everyone else in former Soviet bloc countries, it makes my teeth hurt. What was the UK government's choice was being party to the entrenchment of Russia as Europe's major energy supplier over the course of the past decade or so. That was a very bad idea, but unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it in the short term now.
- Normille 4y ago
  >No, that was Russia's choice. They chose to invade Ukraine with the full and inexcusable intent of occupying territory... And what has that got to do with our energy supplies? Did we thumb our noses at Saudi Arabia and stop buying their oil,when they started bombing the shit out of Yemen? Have we sanctioned the US --ever!-- for any of the 88 and counting countries they've attacked since the end of the second world war? What's so special about Ukraine that we have to throw our own people under the bus because Ukraine hid behind the US's skirts poking the bear next door with a stick and are now suffering the consequences? >What was the UK government's choice was being party to the entrenchment of Russia as Europe's major energy supplier over the course of the past decade or so. That was a very bad idea No. That was a very good idea. What was a very bad idea was continuing to treat Russia as a leper state, even after the break-up of the Soviet Union and the [relatively!] bloodless 'liberation' of Eastern Europe. Is anyone surprised that Russia has realised "Fuck it. whatever we do, we're still the bad guys here!" and decided they might as well act accordingly. But don't fret. I'm sure the good ol' US of A will be delighted to make up the energy shortfall by selling us as much oil & gas as we can send them wheelbarrows full of cash for, in the future. The fact that it's environmentally insane to ship oil & gas all the way across the Atlantic Ocean, when we could have it cleanly flowing through pipelines from our next-door neighbour is a minor detail.
  - danaris 4y ago
    > And what has that got to do with our energy supplies? Did we thumb our noses at Saudi Arabia and stop buying their oil,when they started bombing the shit out of Yemen? Have we sanctioned the US --ever!-- for any of the 88 and counting countries they've attacked since the end of the second world war? Well, I mean, first of all, we absolutely should. It's long past time to stop subsidizing their lifestyle and their violence to support our outdated dependence on fossil fuels. We also need to stop treating Brown People Countries as being less important to protect than White People Countries. > What's so special about Ukraine that we have to throw our own people under the bus because Ukraine hid behind the US's skirts poking the bear next door with a stick and are now suffering the consequences? ....But there actually is a significant difference here (beyond the racism angle). From what I understand, the Saud family just wants to have hegemony within their fairly-small region. Which, yeah, that's not great, but... Putin wants to reassemble the USSR, and then exert influence over...basically all of Asia and Europe. I don't know if he actually wants to "rule the world", but he certainly wants to be in position to influence or pressure most of the world to do things His Way. He is objectively a much greater threat to world stability and to the US.

danaris 4y ago

> So was the decision to fight an economic war against Europe's major energy supplier No, that was Russia's choice. They chose to invade Ukraine with the full and inexcusable intent of occupying territory. Opposing this is not that different from opposing the occupation of Poland nearly a century ago, and boohooing about how it hurts the economy is just so transparently self-serving at the expense of the Ukrainian people and everyone else in former Soviet bloc countries, it makes my teeth hurt. What was the UK government's choice was being party to the entrenchment of Russia as Europe's major energy supplier over the course of the past decade or so. That was a very bad idea, but unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it in the short term now.

Normille 4y ago
>No, that was Russia's choice. They chose to invade Ukraine with the full and inexcusable intent of occupying territory... And what has that got to do with our energy supplies? Did we thumb our noses at Saudi Arabia and stop buying their oil,when they started bombing the shit out of Yemen? Have we sanctioned the US --ever!-- for any of the 88 and counting countries they've attacked since the end of the second world war? What's so special about Ukraine that we have to throw our own people under the bus because Ukraine hid behind the US's skirts poking the bear next door with a stick and are now suffering the consequences? >What was the UK government's choice was being party to the entrenchment of Russia as Europe's major energy supplier over the course of the past decade or so. That was a very bad idea No. That was a very good idea. What was a very bad idea was continuing to treat Russia as a leper state, even after the break-up of the Soviet Union and the [relatively!] bloodless 'liberation' of Eastern Europe. Is anyone surprised that Russia has realised "Fuck it. whatever we do, we're still the bad guys here!" and decided they might as well act accordingly. But don't fret. I'm sure the good ol' US of A will be delighted to make up the energy shortfall by selling us as much oil & gas as we can send them wheelbarrows full of cash for, in the future. The fact that it's environmentally insane to ship oil & gas all the way across the Atlantic Ocean, when we could have it cleanly flowing through pipelines from our next-door neighbour is a minor detail.
- danaris 4y ago
  > And what has that got to do with our energy supplies? Did we thumb our noses at Saudi Arabia and stop buying their oil,when they started bombing the shit out of Yemen? Have we sanctioned the US --ever!-- for any of the 88 and counting countries they've attacked since the end of the second world war? Well, I mean, first of all, we absolutely should. It's long past time to stop subsidizing their lifestyle and their violence to support our outdated dependence on fossil fuels. We also need to stop treating Brown People Countries as being less important to protect than White People Countries. > What's so special about Ukraine that we have to throw our own people under the bus because Ukraine hid behind the US's skirts poking the bear next door with a stick and are now suffering the consequences? ....But there actually is a significant difference here (beyond the racism angle). From what I understand, the Saud family just wants to have hegemony within their fairly-small region. Which, yeah, that's not great, but... Putin wants to reassemble the USSR, and then exert influence over...basically all of Asia and Europe. I don't know if he actually wants to "rule the world", but he certainly wants to be in position to influence or pressure most of the world to do things His Way. He is objectively a much greater threat to world stability and to the US.