4 ms·

The better question is how long will these buildings survive before major structural rework (razing them and rebuilding from scratch). Some of ye olde concrete

The better question is how long will these buildings survive before major structural rework (razing them and rebuilding from scratch). Some of ye olde concrete prefabs are standing now for over a century. As are brick buildings. It could be fixed by turning wood into polymer reinforced wood, but that is an entirely different building method, closer to brick.

shepherdjerred 4y ago
I had a civil engineering friend who worked for a firm that specialized in wooden buildings (the proper name escapes me, but think office buildings made of wood?). According to him it’s very in demand, and it can rival traditional building methods.
herbst 4y ago
I live in an old wood house that was built 200-400 years ago. I only know because my neighbor's house looks identical and is built around 1640. No structural things have been changed, only internal renovations and addons. I was surprised myself. Even more so when you hear that most old concrete or brick town houses have been either destroyed and rebuilt or structurally renovated in the last 40 years or so.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  It should be noted that old growth wood is significantly higher quality wood than what you'd get from most stores these days. The fast-growing wood is flimsier and less rot resistant, but it can also be replanted and replaced quite easy. Only using old growth as a source of wood would cause quick deforestation of the remaining old growth forests and nature reserves only for the trees to be replaced with the worse trees we use today. It would only work once, the next generations would still get the crappy quick lumber we use today or be stuck without wood while waiting for forests to regrow, so it's not really an option. If we go for wooden houses everywhere, we're going to need to use the "industrial" wood.
  - herbst 4y ago
    I can only talk from a smaller scale. All the wood houses here are built with wood from here. Forests are strictly regulated and it's heavily illegal to deforest faster than its sustainable for the region. At least half of the people here also heat with wood, usually from their own lands. I personally have literally zero heating cost increase this year, which is crazy in Europe. There are however at least thousands of trees for every person living here so that couldn't be scaled to a city.
  - d0gsg0w00f 4y ago
    Wood is wood. If you keep it dry it will last forever. Source: carpenter
    - AstralStorm 4y ago
      Ignoring pests, funghi, perfectly dry conditions not existing, etc. Many of those issues are mitigated by chemically treating the woods, but that does not last forever...
      - kube-system 4y ago
        And masonry also lasts forever… ignoring ground movement, frost damage, properly maintained mortar, etc.
  - eropple 4y ago
    “Old growth” wood isn’t materially better for construction along most axes, and possibly all that matter (example: modern SPF is roughly as rot resistant as “old growth wood”, but we also have way better ways to keep it dry too). Construction requires straight-enough material with sufficient flex (compression strength is a gimme) that can effectively hold fasteners. The “crappy quick lumber” that old people complain about today is actually, genuinely fine for what it is intended to be used for and fifty years from now people will be complaining about what they can buy at Robo Home Depot with the same fervor that people complain about modern silvaculture today.
  - ZetaZero 4y ago
cycomanic 4y ago
I live in Sweden,there's plenty of wooden houses that are hundreds of years old. How long a building lasts is much more a function of other factors, not the building material itself.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
beachy 4y ago
My house was built in 1905, all wooden frame. The timber is in perfect shape and as long as there are no leaks, will last for another hundred at least. It becomes very hard though and difficult to nail into. I would imagine wood has more longevity under the right (dry) conditions than steel.
- mellavora 4y ago
  Probably not the "right (dry) conditions" that you were thinking of, but... If a wooden beam is exposed to fire, the outside chars yet it still retains almost its full structural strength. A steel beam almost certainly needs to be replaced. https://www.structuremag.org/?p=1129 https://www.structuremag.org/?p=1129 https://www.edtengineers.com/blog-post/fire-effects-steel https://www.edtengineers.com/blog-post/fire-effects-steel
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    Structurally modifying wood can be done even better than fire treatment, hence the mention of polymer enhanced wood. (And yes, biopolymers work for this.)
  - mrpopo 4y ago
    When done properly, wood charring actually strengthens the wood by drawing out moisture. Charred wood is also more fire-resistant, repels insects and doesn't rot. Of course all this can be achieved differently but charring usually lasts much longer than other surface treatments. It used to be common in Japan (yakisugi) but I assume this must have been common throughout the world.
    - njarboe 4y ago
      My neighbors large barn in the gold country of California has support pillars under the floor that were treated by charing. Built around 1890 and they are still in good shape.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Provided we don't let the timber rote outside or burn it, having to rebuild regularly could actually be a good thing.

shepherdjerred 4y ago

I had a civil engineering friend who worked for a firm that specialized in wooden buildings (the proper name escapes me, but think office buildings made of wood?). According to him it’s very in demand, and it can rival traditional building methods.

herbst 4y ago

I live in an old wood house that was built 200-400 years ago. I only know because my neighbor's house looks identical and is built around 1640. No structural things have been changed, only internal renovations and addons. I was surprised myself. Even more so when you hear that most old concrete or brick town houses have been either destroyed and rebuilt or structurally renovated in the last 40 years or so.

jeroenhd 4y ago
It should be noted that old growth wood is significantly higher quality wood than what you'd get from most stores these days. The fast-growing wood is flimsier and less rot resistant, but it can also be replanted and replaced quite easy. Only using old growth as a source of wood would cause quick deforestation of the remaining old growth forests and nature reserves only for the trees to be replaced with the worse trees we use today. It would only work once, the next generations would still get the crappy quick lumber we use today or be stuck without wood while waiting for forests to regrow, so it's not really an option. If we go for wooden houses everywhere, we're going to need to use the "industrial" wood.
- herbst 4y ago
  I can only talk from a smaller scale. All the wood houses here are built with wood from here. Forests are strictly regulated and it's heavily illegal to deforest faster than its sustainable for the region. At least half of the people here also heat with wood, usually from their own lands. I personally have literally zero heating cost increase this year, which is crazy in Europe. There are however at least thousands of trees for every person living here so that couldn't be scaled to a city.
- d0gsg0w00f 4y ago
  Wood is wood. If you keep it dry it will last forever. Source: carpenter
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    Ignoring pests, funghi, perfectly dry conditions not existing, etc. Many of those issues are mitigated by chemically treating the woods, but that does not last forever...
    - kube-system 4y ago
      And masonry also lasts forever… ignoring ground movement, frost damage, properly maintained mortar, etc.
- eropple 4y ago
  “Old growth” wood isn’t materially better for construction along most axes, and possibly all that matter (example: modern SPF is roughly as rot resistant as “old growth wood”, but we also have way better ways to keep it dry too). Construction requires straight-enough material with sufficient flex (compression strength is a gimme) that can effectively hold fasteners. The “crappy quick lumber” that old people complain about today is actually, genuinely fine for what it is intended to be used for and fifty years from now people will be complaining about what they can buy at Robo Home Depot with the same fervor that people complain about modern silvaculture today.
- ZetaZero 4y ago

cycomanic 4y ago

I live in Sweden,there's plenty of wooden houses that are hundreds of years old. How long a building lasts is much more a function of other factors, not the building material itself.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

beachy 4y ago

My house was built in 1905, all wooden frame. The timber is in perfect shape and as long as there are no leaks, will last for another hundred at least. It becomes very hard though and difficult to nail into. I would imagine wood has more longevity under the right (dry) conditions than steel.

mellavora 4y ago
Probably not the "right (dry) conditions" that you were thinking of, but... If a wooden beam is exposed to fire, the outside chars yet it still retains almost its full structural strength. A steel beam almost certainly needs to be replaced. https://www.structuremag.org/?p=1129 https://www.structuremag.org/?p=1129 https://www.edtengineers.com/blog-post/fire-effects-steel https://www.edtengineers.com/blog-post/fire-effects-steel
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  Structurally modifying wood can be done even better than fire treatment, hence the mention of polymer enhanced wood. (And yes, biopolymers work for this.)
- mrpopo 4y ago
  When done properly, wood charring actually strengthens the wood by drawing out moisture. Charred wood is also more fire-resistant, repels insects and doesn't rot. Of course all this can be achieved differently but charring usually lasts much longer than other surface treatments. It used to be common in Japan (yakisugi) but I assume this must have been common throughout the world.
  - njarboe 4y ago
    My neighbors large barn in the gold country of California has support pillars under the floor that were treated by charing. Built around 1890 and they are still in good shape.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

Provided we don't let the timber rote outside or burn it, having to rebuild regularly could actually be a good thing.