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> I hope you are kidding. I don't think that snark is merited. There's been a natural carbon cycle underway for millions of years. Wildfire is a core characte

> I hope you are kidding. I don't think that snark is merited. There's been a natural carbon cycle underway for millions of years. Wildfire is a core character. I'm not saying that tree farms are good or that we aren't doing a terrible job managing forests (or that climate change fears aren't being exploited for political and financial gain). But there is a fundamental difference between the "carbon cycle" and humans digging up / burning hydrocarbons.

robomartin 4y ago
> there is a fundamental difference between the "carbon cycle" and humans digging up / burning hydrocarbons. There is no difference. The stuff we dig-up is the same stuff that was burning naturally in the form of trees and other biomass. It just happens to be a highly concentrated form. And then there's this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire The carbon cycle of plants isn't and has never been the only driver of what composes our atmosphere. It's a complex multivariate problem. The only difference here is that we are actually pushing ridiculous ideas about being able to meddle with forces and effects at a planetary scale when we can't even extinguish a coal fire that has been burning for a hundred years, much less one burning for six thousand years. At some point we have to start recognizing that we are being sold absolute nonsense. This, BTW, in my opinion, also includes the idea that we are all going to turn into jelly if CO2 increases above what seems to be an ever-moving threshold. I invite anyone who is open-minded enough to consider the idea that what they think they know might just be wrong, to go out and do something very simple: Buy a CO2 meter. Take your CO2 meter with you everywhere and understand where you have been living. As I became more and more interested in understanding the subject, this is one of the first things I did. And what I learned was eye opening. We live our daily lives in a range between 600 and 1400 ppm. This is true of probably most of humanity. The only exceptions likely being those who work in wide open fields. Maybe. Here's a picture of my CO2 meter in the kitchen (no cooking at all for probably 12 to 14 hours): https://i.imgur.com/KPfCxRx.png https://i.imgur.com/KPfCxRx.png here's the same meter at the office: https://i.imgur.com/3jEru4d.png https://i.imgur.com/3jEru4d.png Here it is on the lawn: https://i.imgur.com/srjNIYE.png https://i.imgur.com/srjNIYE.png I don't have a picture handy. In the car the number ranged from about 900 to 1400. The higher number came in once on the road. Numbers at the homes of friends and family and other business locations were similar. Last I checked, nobody is turning in to putty. It is also fair to assume these conditions have existed in indoor living for a very long time. If we believe today's buildings are healthier than during a time when they burned wood for heat, well, they likely lived in even higher concentrations. So, what are we talking about really? If your entire family and those of your friends and extended families, for generations, have been living in 600 to 1000 ppm CO2 concentrations. Why are we pushing a narrative of impending doom in a dozen years? I look at this as the lunacy the Y2K problem became. It was going to be the end of the world. And then it wasn't. Except the opportunists pushing outlandish narratives made money and never paid a price for the consequences of the nonsense they pushed. I firmly believe this is what climate change has become today. That isn't to say its not real. That is not what I am saying at all. It is. What I am saying is that it has become a cult for political and financial gain. It will not destroy the planet or kill everything on it. And we sure as hell can't do a thing about it. We can't even put out coal mine fires and we have the hubris to claim to be able to "save" an entire planet. Please.

robomartin 4y ago

> there is a fundamental difference between the "carbon cycle" and humans digging up / burning hydrocarbons. There is no difference. The stuff we dig-up is the same stuff that was burning naturally in the form of trees and other biomass. It just happens to be a highly concentrated form. And then there's this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire The carbon cycle of plants isn't and has never been the only driver of what composes our atmosphere. It's a complex multivariate problem. The only difference here is that we are actually pushing ridiculous ideas about being able to meddle with forces and effects at a planetary scale when we can't even extinguish a coal fire that has been burning for a hundred years, much less one burning for six thousand years. At some point we have to start recognizing that we are being sold absolute nonsense. This, BTW, in my opinion, also includes the idea that we are all going to turn into jelly if CO2 increases above what seems to be an ever-moving threshold. I invite anyone who is open-minded enough to consider the idea that what they think they know might just be wrong, to go out and do something very simple: Buy a CO2 meter. Take your CO2 meter with you everywhere and understand where you have been living. As I became more and more interested in understanding the subject, this is one of the first things I did. And what I learned was eye opening. We live our daily lives in a range between 600 and 1400 ppm. This is true of probably most of humanity. The only exceptions likely being those who work in wide open fields. Maybe. Here's a picture of my CO2 meter in the kitchen (no cooking at all for probably 12 to 14 hours): https://i.imgur.com/KPfCxRx.png https://i.imgur.com/KPfCxRx.png here's the same meter at the office: https://i.imgur.com/3jEru4d.png https://i.imgur.com/3jEru4d.png Here it is on the lawn: https://i.imgur.com/srjNIYE.png https://i.imgur.com/srjNIYE.png I don't have a picture handy. In the car the number ranged from about 900 to 1400. The higher number came in once on the road. Numbers at the homes of friends and family and other business locations were similar. Last I checked, nobody is turning in to putty. It is also fair to assume these conditions have existed in indoor living for a very long time. If we believe today's buildings are healthier than during a time when they burned wood for heat, well, they likely lived in even higher concentrations. So, what are we talking about really? If your entire family and those of your friends and extended families, for generations, have been living in 600 to 1000 ppm CO2 concentrations. Why are we pushing a narrative of impending doom in a dozen years? I look at this as the lunacy the Y2K problem became. It was going to be the end of the world. And then it wasn't. Except the opportunists pushing outlandish narratives made money and never paid a price for the consequences of the nonsense they pushed. I firmly believe this is what climate change has become today. That isn't to say its not real. That is not what I am saying at all. It is. What I am saying is that it has become a cult for political and financial gain. It will not destroy the planet or kill everything on it. And we sure as hell can't do a thing about it. We can't even put out coal mine fires and we have the hubris to claim to be able to "save" an entire planet. Please.