4 ms·

I read the abstract but not the paper. If it's accurate, it is an incredibly surprising result. We already know the Russians are pros at manipulating social med

I read the abstract but not the paper. If it's accurate, it is an incredibly surprising result. We already know the Russians are pros at manipulating social media for the purposes of HUMINT, propaganda, etc. If they only represent 7% of bots, that means that: 1. Another actor, possibly a nation-state, is putting even more resources than Russia is into shaping the narrative, 2. Russia isn't actually trying very hard manipulate the narrative this time around. Both these scenarios are new and somewhat frightening. If #1 - what is the motivation? Who is doing it? If #2 - why would they abandon a previously successful strategy? Where did they redirect those resources to? Are they up to something even worse? None of this discussion requires you to be pro-Putin, which is what you seemed to imply. Your comment is being down-voted because it criticizes while lacking any sort of imagination or insight.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Or 3. Western media got a lot better at filtering out Russian disinformation and propaganda, once the put their minds to it. I'm not sure I entirely believe that. The Russians aren't amateurs.
- another_another 4y ago
  Actually I do think that's possibly what is happening here. As you say the Russians aren't amateurs, but at the same time they've massively overstepped their mark this time and have galvanised action against them that possibly didn't particularly have the will before, since they poured a lot of money into platforms that would promote Russia's propaganda (hard and soft). It seems that currently no amount of money can whitewash what they're doing. Of course that might change again in the future.
ShivShankaran 4y ago
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/fl-op-viewpoint-aregood-vietnam-war-20170928-story.html https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/fl-op-viewpoint-aregood... "We're forever scarred by the Vietnam War, and the lies " https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=honors https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cg... I wasn't born during the vietnam war but there was an article that I read recently on how the media deceived the public about deaths and "trust in american media was lost permanently" The propaganda in this war from all three sides is exceedingly high. We will find out the US propaganda in 10 years or so.
- subjectsigma 4y ago
  [flagged]
- happymellon 4y ago
  There is only one country that invaded a sovereign nation. No amount of "propaganda" will remove that fact.
  - troon-lover 4y ago
unmole 4y ago
> We already know the Russians are pros at manipulating social media How do we know this?
- subjectsigma 4y ago
  https://about.fb.com/news/2017/10/hard-questions-russian-ads-delivered-to-congress/ https://about.fb.com/news/2017/10/hard-questions-russian-ads...
  - unmole 4y ago
    Running an ad campaign is considered being a pro at manipulating social media? What did the campaign actually achieve?
    - subjectsigma 4y ago
      If their goal was to sow fear and uncertainty, they achieved it. If it was to get people to vote for Trump, they absolutely achieved that as well, although it's unclear if he would have won without it.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - unmole 4y ago
        My goal was to make it rain today and I achieved it.
        subjectsigma 4y ago
        It is very obvious what you are trying to do. That's not an argument and you know it.
- tenpies 4y ago
  I would argue that the greatest thing the Russians ever did was convince the West they were pros at manipulating social media. The FBI literally interfered with the 2020 US election because they were that afraid of the Russians. Russia didn't even have to do anything, the FBI did it all for them out of an unearned reputation.
demetrius 4y ago
I think you're missing the most likely possibility: 3. Russia is operating pro-Ukrainian bots to influence pro-Ukrainian people. The bots pretend to be pro-Ukrainian but then try to influence the public opinion in the ways that are useful to Russia.
- unmole 4y ago
  Why is a scenario that needs the requires the most assumptions the most likely?
  - demetrius 4y ago
    The scenarios 1 and 2 also require a lot of assumptions, you just take them for granted. I don't agree that my scenario requires more assumptions that scenarios 1 and 2.
Georgelemental 4y ago
I think Russia doesn't care much about narrative war in Western countries, they are not going to "win" in that theater anyway. Their propaganda is more focused on their own citizens and third world/non-aligned nations. However, it serves certain political groups to exaggerate how much Russian propaganda there is in the West (in order to justify censorship). As for who is spreading pro-Ukrainian propaganda, I would guess either Ukraine (most obvious motive) or USA or UK (have the intelligence agencies/know-how). Possibly also a countries like Saudi Arabia or Azerbaijan that benefit economically from the war?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

Or 3. Western media got a lot better at filtering out Russian disinformation and propaganda, once the put their minds to it. I'm not sure I entirely believe that. The Russians aren't amateurs.

another_another 4y ago
Actually I do think that's possibly what is happening here. As you say the Russians aren't amateurs, but at the same time they've massively overstepped their mark this time and have galvanised action against them that possibly didn't particularly have the will before, since they poured a lot of money into platforms that would promote Russia's propaganda (hard and soft). It seems that currently no amount of money can whitewash what they're doing. Of course that might change again in the future.

ShivShankaran 4y ago

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/fl-op-viewpoint-aregood-vietnam-war-20170928-story.html https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/fl-op-viewpoint-aregood... "We're forever scarred by the Vietnam War, and the lies " https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=honors https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cg... I wasn't born during the vietnam war but there was an article that I read recently on how the media deceived the public about deaths and "trust in american media was lost permanently" The propaganda in this war from all three sides is exceedingly high. We will find out the US propaganda in 10 years or so.

subjectsigma 4y ago
[flagged]
happymellon 4y ago
There is only one country that invaded a sovereign nation. No amount of "propaganda" will remove that fact.
- troon-lover 4y ago

unmole 4y ago

> We already know the Russians are pros at manipulating social media How do we know this?

subjectsigma 4y ago
https://about.fb.com/news/2017/10/hard-questions-russian-ads-delivered-to-congress/ https://about.fb.com/news/2017/10/hard-questions-russian-ads...
- unmole 4y ago
  Running an ad campaign is considered being a pro at manipulating social media? What did the campaign actually achieve?
  - subjectsigma 4y ago
    If their goal was to sow fear and uncertainty, they achieved it. If it was to get people to vote for Trump, they absolutely achieved that as well, although it's unclear if he would have won without it.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - unmole 4y ago
      My goal was to make it rain today and I achieved it.
      - subjectsigma 4y ago
        It is very obvious what you are trying to do. That's not an argument and you know it.
tenpies 4y ago
I would argue that the greatest thing the Russians ever did was convince the West they were pros at manipulating social media. The FBI literally interfered with the 2020 US election because they were that afraid of the Russians. Russia didn't even have to do anything, the FBI did it all for them out of an unearned reputation.

demetrius 4y ago

I think you're missing the most likely possibility: 3. Russia is operating pro-Ukrainian bots to influence pro-Ukrainian people. The bots pretend to be pro-Ukrainian but then try to influence the public opinion in the ways that are useful to Russia.

unmole 4y ago
Why is a scenario that needs the requires the most assumptions the most likely?
- demetrius 4y ago
  The scenarios 1 and 2 also require a lot of assumptions, you just take them for granted. I don't agree that my scenario requires more assumptions that scenarios 1 and 2.

Georgelemental 4y ago

I think Russia doesn't care much about narrative war in Western countries, they are not going to "win" in that theater anyway. Their propaganda is more focused on their own citizens and third world/non-aligned nations. However, it serves certain political groups to exaggerate how much Russian propaganda there is in the West (in order to justify censorship). As for who is spreading pro-Ukrainian propaganda, I would guess either Ukraine (most obvious motive) or USA or UK (have the intelligence agencies/know-how). Possibly also a countries like Saudi Arabia or Azerbaijan that benefit economically from the war?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]