3 ms·

The real problem with this and every other cloudflare saga is that if cloudflare doesn't like you, you are not on the internet.

hollywood_court 4y ago
Doesn’t that mean someone can start a company to fill that void?
- jlawson 4y ago
  No, they can't because of economies of scale and network effects and cultural targeting from other parts of the leftist corporate cabal. Simple example is the kind of targeting that has happened on Gab and Truth Social and Hatreon, etc. Payment services shut down, hosting denied, domains unregistered, etc. You're talking about being an upstart competing against an established behemoth, with your only distinguishing feature being freedom of speech. But of course if your big thing is being against witch burning, you'll be inundated by witches, targeted and shut down for that reason. The "Just build your own internet and payment infrastructure totally cut off from existing systems, under constant media vilification, bro" argument has been made a million times, tried many times, doesn't work at all.
  - rvz 4y ago
    > Simple example is the kind of targeting that has happened on Gab and Truth Social and Hatreon, etc. Payment services shut down, hosting denied, domains unregistered, etc. They were all crying, and throwing a tantrum here when OnlyFans, got de-platformed from Instagram, VISA, Mastercard and many just replied: 'they can choose to do business with whoever they want to' which is true. Same with the YouTube demonitization events, or Ukraine's 'Come back Alive' Patreon account de-platformed; pointing to the ToS violations. In all cases, it means that it can happen to anyone and their is zero viable alternative, unless they wait for cryptocurrencies / stablecoins to be fully regulated. So for now, the respondents on both sides of the argument just didn't like the 'private company can choose to do business with whoever they want' answer. It doesn't matter.
    - cowtools 4y ago
      This infrastructure should not be dependent on the whims of private companies. In the case of KF, they ought to switch to Tor. In the case of OF, they ought to switch to cryptocurrency.
- codefreeordie 4y ago
  There is a moderately-large group on the political right trying to build "the parallel economy", but it's a nigh impossible task, because you have to start at the very bottom of the stack. You can't start at the internet service level, because Cloudflare will stop you. You can't start at the Cloudflare level either, because the peering services and the payment rails will stop you. You have to start all the way at the bottom of the stack by building a parallel financial system first, then parallel networking, then parallel internet infrastructure, and only then parallel user services. And you'll need parallel browsers, on parallel mobile operating systems, on parallel hardware, on parallel telephone networks. Current oligopolies at all of these levels have demonstrated willingness to apply political-cultural censorship at various times. In order to "build your own", you have to actually make an entire parallel economic system. Edit: In the incredibly unlikely event that the parallel economy is successfully built, it will not increase societal cohesiveness to have a bifurcated society, where what "side" you are on determines what banks you can use, what phone networks you use, and, for all practical purposes, which internet you are on. Overall, it is better for society if the parallel economy is not needed.

hollywood_court 4y ago

Doesn’t that mean someone can start a company to fill that void?

jlawson 4y ago
No, they can't because of economies of scale and network effects and cultural targeting from other parts of the leftist corporate cabal. Simple example is the kind of targeting that has happened on Gab and Truth Social and Hatreon, etc. Payment services shut down, hosting denied, domains unregistered, etc. You're talking about being an upstart competing against an established behemoth, with your only distinguishing feature being freedom of speech. But of course if your big thing is being against witch burning, you'll be inundated by witches, targeted and shut down for that reason. The "Just build your own internet and payment infrastructure totally cut off from existing systems, under constant media vilification, bro" argument has been made a million times, tried many times, doesn't work at all.
- rvz 4y ago
  > Simple example is the kind of targeting that has happened on Gab and Truth Social and Hatreon, etc. Payment services shut down, hosting denied, domains unregistered, etc. They were all crying, and throwing a tantrum here when OnlyFans, got de-platformed from Instagram, VISA, Mastercard and many just replied: 'they can choose to do business with whoever they want to' which is true. Same with the YouTube demonitization events, or Ukraine's 'Come back Alive' Patreon account de-platformed; pointing to the ToS violations. In all cases, it means that it can happen to anyone and their is zero viable alternative, unless they wait for cryptocurrencies / stablecoins to be fully regulated. So for now, the respondents on both sides of the argument just didn't like the 'private company can choose to do business with whoever they want' answer. It doesn't matter.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    This infrastructure should not be dependent on the whims of private companies. In the case of KF, they ought to switch to Tor. In the case of OF, they ought to switch to cryptocurrency.
codefreeordie 4y ago
There is a moderately-large group on the political right trying to build "the parallel economy", but it's a nigh impossible task, because you have to start at the very bottom of the stack. You can't start at the internet service level, because Cloudflare will stop you. You can't start at the Cloudflare level either, because the peering services and the payment rails will stop you. You have to start all the way at the bottom of the stack by building a parallel financial system first, then parallel networking, then parallel internet infrastructure, and only then parallel user services. And you'll need parallel browsers, on parallel mobile operating systems, on parallel hardware, on parallel telephone networks. Current oligopolies at all of these levels have demonstrated willingness to apply political-cultural censorship at various times. In order to "build your own", you have to actually make an entire parallel economic system. Edit: In the incredibly unlikely event that the parallel economy is successfully built, it will not increase societal cohesiveness to have a bifurcated society, where what "side" you are on determines what banks you can use, what phone networks you use, and, for all practical purposes, which internet you are on. Overall, it is better for society if the parallel economy is not needed.