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I should blame myself for 60 years of public policy none of which I was consulted on? Ok. How about I just not do that and get a job that doesn’t require me to

I should blame myself for 60 years of public policy none of which I was consulted on? Ok. How about I just not do that and get a job that doesn’t require me to commute? That’s how labor markets work, and feels a lot more productive than commuting for penance. Edit: I used to commute by train in NYC for 10 years, and I would most certainly rather drive nails through my eyes than do it again. Why shouldn’t I blame the management for a demonstrably optional policy that materially makes my life worse? They could just say “work the way that works best for you” and leave it at that. Just because “work” involved large headquarters and offices in the 1920’s doesn’t mean it did for all of history before that, nor must it be so into the future. Better than trains, used to be work was decentralized into many offices within walking distance. Work 1000 years ago looked nothing like today. Nothing - nothing - says work has to be ANYTHING. Work is a fiction we created to enlist more people in our projects, and it’s construction in reality is artificial and emergent. We have the tools and ability to break the emergent reality and reclaim our downtown space for residential and retail use - that sounds much more attractive than trains to work.

krashidov 4y ago
I am not trying to debate how labor markets work. I’m pushing back against conflating working from the office with terrible commutes. Yes, they are related, but the cause of the terrible commute is not necessarily having a job that requires you to come into the office, it’s the shitty infrastructure we’ve built for ourselves
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  And I’m saying all commutes are both terrible and optional, and only management policy makes them necessary. Btw, I commuted for 10 years by train. It was awful. I’d rather commute by car and moved so I could.
  - krashidov 4y ago
    I just read your edit. I agree walking is probably the best possible commute type. And having lots of little decentralized places of work you can walk to is ideal. But it’s probably not scalable. Eventually you’re gonna have people who want to live in the suburbs and work downtown. The idea of work has definitely changed but at the core, it’s about working with others to achieve a common goal. It used to be that sustenance and surviving the winter was the common goal. I’m not sure how it’s going to play out but I do think there are some advantages to being with your coworkers IRL. > And I’m saying all commutes are both terrible and optional, and only management policy makes them necessary. All software engineering commutes are probably optional. I’m not sure how you expect a janitor to work from home though > Btw, I commuted for 10 years by train. It was awful. I’d rather commute by car and moved so I could. This is an interesting data point for sure. Is traveling by train just inherently bad or can it be improved ?
    - actually_a_dog 4y ago
      I know you said "probably," but, in fact, not all SWE commutes are optional. I once had a job programming a $50k test rig for a $75k piece of hardware, neither of which existed outside of my company's test lab. You could SSH into the test rig, but there were other logistical issues that made that a painful way to work, and not something you'd want to do often. I didn't mind my commute, anyway, because it was a 5 minute bike ride or a 20 minute walk at a leisurely pace.
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  No, but I think the point here is that part of the cause of the terrible commute is so many other people having a job that requires them to come into the office on that shitty infrastructure. Shitty infrastructure isn't something you can snap your fingers and fix, but companies that were fully remote for the past 2 years can certainly stay or go back to being fully remote. It's not a full solution by any means; indeed, it's a bit like putting a bandaid on a shotgun wound, but it stops some of the bleeding right now. OTOH, you certainly could argue that SWEs and other well-paid professionals who are inconvenienced by a terrible commute are incredibly privileged and need to get in line behind those experiencing real societal issues, but that's a completely different argument altogether.
- tharne 4y ago
  All commutes are terrible. If you have the type of job where you can work from home, then any commute is a theft of your time.
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    Careful. If you value your time you might be accused of being a “quiet quitter.”

krashidov 4y ago

I am not trying to debate how labor markets work. I’m pushing back against conflating working from the office with terrible commutes. Yes, they are related, but the cause of the terrible commute is not necessarily having a job that requires you to come into the office, it’s the shitty infrastructure we’ve built for ourselves

fnordpiglet 4y ago
And I’m saying all commutes are both terrible and optional, and only management policy makes them necessary. Btw, I commuted for 10 years by train. It was awful. I’d rather commute by car and moved so I could.
- krashidov 4y ago
  I just read your edit. I agree walking is probably the best possible commute type. And having lots of little decentralized places of work you can walk to is ideal. But it’s probably not scalable. Eventually you’re gonna have people who want to live in the suburbs and work downtown. The idea of work has definitely changed but at the core, it’s about working with others to achieve a common goal. It used to be that sustenance and surviving the winter was the common goal. I’m not sure how it’s going to play out but I do think there are some advantages to being with your coworkers IRL. > And I’m saying all commutes are both terrible and optional, and only management policy makes them necessary. All software engineering commutes are probably optional. I’m not sure how you expect a janitor to work from home though > Btw, I commuted for 10 years by train. It was awful. I’d rather commute by car and moved so I could. This is an interesting data point for sure. Is traveling by train just inherently bad or can it be improved ?
  - actually_a_dog 4y ago
    I know you said "probably," but, in fact, not all SWE commutes are optional. I once had a job programming a $50k test rig for a $75k piece of hardware, neither of which existed outside of my company's test lab. You could SSH into the test rig, but there were other logistical issues that made that a painful way to work, and not something you'd want to do often. I didn't mind my commute, anyway, because it was a 5 minute bike ride or a 20 minute walk at a leisurely pace.
actually_a_dog 4y ago
No, but I think the point here is that part of the cause of the terrible commute is so many other people having a job that requires them to come into the office on that shitty infrastructure. Shitty infrastructure isn't something you can snap your fingers and fix, but companies that were fully remote for the past 2 years can certainly stay or go back to being fully remote. It's not a full solution by any means; indeed, it's a bit like putting a bandaid on a shotgun wound, but it stops some of the bleeding right now. OTOH, you certainly could argue that SWEs and other well-paid professionals who are inconvenienced by a terrible commute are incredibly privileged and need to get in line behind those experiencing real societal issues, but that's a completely different argument altogether.
tharne 4y ago
All commutes are terrible. If you have the type of job where you can work from home, then any commute is a theft of your time.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Careful. If you value your time you might be accused of being a “quiet quitter.”