3 ms·

They can be, but in large parts of Michigan they haven't been - a quick check says 15% of power lines are buried. So any weather event that risks damage to tree

by Kalium 4y ago

They can be, but in large parts of Michigan they haven't been - a quick check says 15% of power lines are buried. So any weather event that risks damage to tree limbs also risks power outages.

taylodl 4y ago
Burying power lines is extremely expensive - and the utilities aren't going to eat that cost, it's going to be passed right on to you! Moreover, when there are problems with underground power lines, which ironically tends to also happen in the winter due to the salt used on roadways, it's very time-consuming to resolve issues. The utilities would need 5x the crews they currently have in order to restore power in as timely a manner as they do now. How do I know this? I work for a major utility serving the midwest. Winters are no joke in these parts. As others have noted, heat pumps are only good down to 20F. If it gets colder than that, which it frequently does, you're going to want a natural gas furnace because electric furnaces are stupid expensive to operate! This coming from a guy who works for the power company! There's not going to be any phase-out of natural gas for decades - which is the amount of time we need to build all the nuclear generation we need to make power as cheap and abundant as we need. We can't heat our homes and power our cars with wishes and desires - we need a hard-nosed energy policy and plan of execution.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  > As others have noted, heat pumps are only good down to 20F. If it gets colder than that, Others said no such thing. Did you leave out the minus sign?
  - taylodl 4y ago
    You're right - they said -20F. I didn't leave out the minus sign, I didn't even see it!, and it's interesting why. Thirty years ago my parents had a house having both a gas furnace and a heat pump that worked in tandem. They had a problem with their furnace that they didn't immediately fix because they were using the heat pump. Then they got the bill. It was nearly 3x more expensive than usual. My dad immediately got the furnace fixed. What I recall my dad saying is when the furnace guy came out to fix the furnace my dad was talking to the furnace guy about the bill. The furnace guy said heat pumps get very inefficient below 20F. So my dad's system was designed to run the heat pump until the outside temperature got to 20F and then it would switch over to the furnace, if available. If it detected the furnace not coming on then it would continue to run the heat pump. So I've had it in my head ever since that you don't want to run a heat pump below 20F. Are the new heat pumps different? Is it now -20F instead of 20F before your costs soar?
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      Yes, apparently there have been huge advances in the efficiency of heat pumps since then. And this is why ground source heat pumps are less of a thing these days: you don't need the help of that underground temperature as much. This guy gets really excited about heat pumps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEHFsO-XSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEHFsO-XSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43XKfuptnik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43XKfuptnik
      - taylodl 4y ago
        Thanks for the links!
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      It is still not too smart to run your heat pump below 10F. It will work, but the BTUs it can produce will be limited, right when you need a lot more because it's f*%&in' cold out.

by Kalium 4y ago

They can be, but in large parts of Michigan they haven't been - a quick check says 15% of power lines are buried. So any weather event that risks damage to tree limbs also risks power outages.

taylodl 4y ago

Burying power lines is extremely expensive - and the utilities aren't going to eat that cost, it's going to be passed right on to you! Moreover, when there are problems with underground power lines, which ironically tends to also happen in the winter due to the salt used on roadways, it's very time-consuming to resolve issues. The utilities would need 5x the crews they currently have in order to restore power in as timely a manner as they do now. How do I know this? I work for a major utility serving the midwest. Winters are no joke in these parts. As others have noted, heat pumps are only good down to 20F. If it gets colder than that, which it frequently does, you're going to want a natural gas furnace because electric furnaces are stupid expensive to operate! This coming from a guy who works for the power company! There's not going to be any phase-out of natural gas for decades - which is the amount of time we need to build all the nuclear generation we need to make power as cheap and abundant as we need. We can't heat our homes and power our cars with wishes and desires - we need a hard-nosed energy policy and plan of execution.

pfdietz 4y ago
> As others have noted, heat pumps are only good down to 20F. If it gets colder than that, Others said no such thing. Did you leave out the minus sign?
- taylodl 4y ago
  You're right - they said -20F. I didn't leave out the minus sign, I didn't even see it!, and it's interesting why. Thirty years ago my parents had a house having both a gas furnace and a heat pump that worked in tandem. They had a problem with their furnace that they didn't immediately fix because they were using the heat pump. Then they got the bill. It was nearly 3x more expensive than usual. My dad immediately got the furnace fixed. What I recall my dad saying is when the furnace guy came out to fix the furnace my dad was talking to the furnace guy about the bill. The furnace guy said heat pumps get very inefficient below 20F. So my dad's system was designed to run the heat pump until the outside temperature got to 20F and then it would switch over to the furnace, if available. If it detected the furnace not coming on then it would continue to run the heat pump. So I've had it in my head ever since that you don't want to run a heat pump below 20F. Are the new heat pumps different? Is it now -20F instead of 20F before your costs soar?
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    Yes, apparently there have been huge advances in the efficiency of heat pumps since then. And this is why ground source heat pumps are less of a thing these days: you don't need the help of that underground temperature as much. This guy gets really excited about heat pumps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEHFsO-XSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEHFsO-XSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43XKfuptnik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43XKfuptnik
    - taylodl 4y ago
      Thanks for the links!
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    It is still not too smart to run your heat pump below 10F. It will work, but the BTUs it can produce will be limited, right when you need a lot more because it's f*%&in' cold out.