6 ms·

How is it that on HN, people are complaining about being given a link to the git repo for the project source?!? Not only that, but Oh no!!, there's no `README.

How is it that on HN, people are complaining about being given a link to the git repo for the project source?!? Not only that, but Oh no!!, there's no `README.md` or `INSTALL.md` yet in this 4-day old, 2-commit repository to tell users how to build it? How will they ever figure it out, and find the 25-line `Makefile` out of the... 6 files in the repo? Seriously?

0xbadcafebee 4y ago
What kind of person goes to the trouble of creating an entire reference manual and doesn't take the very last step of generating the readable files? It's like inviting somebody over for a meal, only to dump a set of kitchen utensils, ingredients, and recipe in their lap.
nousermane 4y ago
That's one excellently human-readable makefile, too.
- dale_glass 4y ago
  That's the use case where Makefile shines. Though it's not a particularly good one, the dependencies are lacking. Eg, .html doesn't depend on .texi, and so this one won't work right. IMO, Makefile is at its best on small projects with trivial rules and no configuration. Once you go to a generator it's a waste, because it's not human friendly anymore. And complex projects want something more like cmake anyway.
asdfasfa3r23r 4y ago
People are NOT complaining about that (git, source, 4day old code, readable makefile that is better than a readme, etc) People here are programmed to react a certain way to the very mention of Stallman. I will not elaborate further.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  Not only are people here are programmed to react a certain way to the very mention of Stallman, but also Emacs. http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-doctor.html http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d...
  - SllX 4y ago
    RMS sure do know how to bring it out in people don’t he?
sgt 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mustache_kimono 4y ago
  When every other programming language community is trying to build an inclusive culture, well, C can't stop, won't stop being C. Might want to chill with the gatekeeping, if you want to gatekeep a guide to learn the language. In the long run, that may not accrue to a language's benefit.
  - vbezhenar 4y ago
    Actually C is user-friendly language. It's just a little bit picky when choosing a friends.
    - mustache_kimono 4y ago
      I always thought C was an enabler?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - cies 4y ago
    Nah, this is RMS being a boss uploading his work for others to distribute in various formats. His Emacs code base got a long way, so did his GCC and basic unix tools. He did this before... And was quite successful at it.
    - mustache_kimono 4y ago
      > Nah, this is RMS being a boss Don't care to participate in any hero worship. Not for me. I was referring to the comment I replied to. "Might want to chill with the gatekeeping" is what I was saying. Thought this would be obvious, but I'll add it to my comment.
eulers_secret 4y ago
I guess the anecdotes about interviewees not being able to figure out a (very) simple Git repo without hand holding (or write 'fizzbuzz') are true.
- kstrauser 4y ago
  I sincerely wish those were fictions. I’ve been on the interviewing end of both of those cases. It’s OK (if a bit surprising) if someone’s never used Git before. Maybe they worked at a Perforce or Subversion shop. It’s not OK to be unable to Google “git basics” to figure out how to clone a repo.
  - JJMcJ 4y ago
    It might be a bit over the top in the heat of a 30 minute interview, but for say an at-home two hour challenge it's not too unreasonable.
- JJMcJ 4y ago
  One manager I know says he gets "senior" candidates who can't do FizzBuzz. Not just have trouble with the modulo operator, but can't even get started. Lying? Just not able to interview well?
midislack 4y ago
- kube-system 4y ago
  > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - FuckThiel 4y ago
Arnavion 4y ago
Also people who don't know about their package manager's whatprovides command.
cantSpellSober 4y ago
If it's only 2-commits-old, why "release" it to the public? Why not say "alpha source code for a language reference is available?" Hackers can still try to build it using random comments on the internet instead of a README.
- Karellen 4y ago
  "Release Early, Release Often" -- Eric S. Raymond, The Cathedral and the Bazaar, 1997 http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ar01s04.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral... See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often
  - cantSpellSober 4y ago
    Thanks, but I know who Linus is already. You don't need to paste the wiki article AND the references, the references are available at the bottom of the page!

0xbadcafebee 4y ago

What kind of person goes to the trouble of creating an entire reference manual and doesn't take the very last step of generating the readable files? It's like inviting somebody over for a meal, only to dump a set of kitchen utensils, ingredients, and recipe in their lap.

nousermane 4y ago

That's one excellently human-readable makefile, too.

dale_glass 4y ago
That's the use case where Makefile shines. Though it's not a particularly good one, the dependencies are lacking. Eg, .html doesn't depend on .texi, and so this one won't work right. IMO, Makefile is at its best on small projects with trivial rules and no configuration. Once you go to a generator it's a waste, because it's not human friendly anymore. And complex projects want something more like cmake anyway.

asdfasfa3r23r 4y ago

People are NOT complaining about that (git, source, 4day old code, readable makefile that is better than a readme, etc) People here are programmed to react a certain way to the very mention of Stallman. I will not elaborate further.

DonHopkins 4y ago
Not only are people here are programmed to react a certain way to the very mention of Stallman, but also Emacs. http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-doctor.html http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d...
- SllX 4y ago
  RMS sure do know how to bring it out in people don’t he?

sgt 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mustache_kimono 4y ago
When every other programming language community is trying to build an inclusive culture, well, C can't stop, won't stop being C. Might want to chill with the gatekeeping, if you want to gatekeep a guide to learn the language. In the long run, that may not accrue to a language's benefit.
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  Actually C is user-friendly language. It's just a little bit picky when choosing a friends.
  - mustache_kimono 4y ago
    I always thought C was an enabler?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- cies 4y ago
  Nah, this is RMS being a boss uploading his work for others to distribute in various formats. His Emacs code base got a long way, so did his GCC and basic unix tools. He did this before... And was quite successful at it.
  - mustache_kimono 4y ago
    > Nah, this is RMS being a boss Don't care to participate in any hero worship. Not for me. I was referring to the comment I replied to. "Might want to chill with the gatekeeping" is what I was saying. Thought this would be obvious, but I'll add it to my comment.

eulers_secret 4y ago

I guess the anecdotes about interviewees not being able to figure out a (very) simple Git repo without hand holding (or write 'fizzbuzz') are true.

kstrauser 4y ago
I sincerely wish those were fictions. I’ve been on the interviewing end of both of those cases. It’s OK (if a bit surprising) if someone’s never used Git before. Maybe they worked at a Perforce or Subversion shop. It’s not OK to be unable to Google “git basics” to figure out how to clone a repo.
- JJMcJ 4y ago
  It might be a bit over the top in the heat of a 30 minute interview, but for say an at-home two hour challenge it's not too unreasonable.
JJMcJ 4y ago
One manager I know says he gets "senior" candidates who can't do FizzBuzz. Not just have trouble with the modulo operator, but can't even get started. Lying? Just not able to interview well?

midislack 4y ago

kube-system 4y ago
> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- FuckThiel 4y ago

Arnavion 4y ago

Also people who don't know about their package manager's whatprovides command.

cantSpellSober 4y ago

If it's only 2-commits-old, why "release" it to the public? Why not say "alpha source code for a language reference is available?" Hackers can still try to build it using random comments on the internet instead of a README.

Karellen 4y ago
"Release Early, Release Often" -- Eric S. Raymond, The Cathedral and the Bazaar, 1997 http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ar01s04.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral... See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often
- cantSpellSober 4y ago
  Thanks, but I know who Linus is already. You don't need to paste the wiki article AND the references, the references are available at the bottom of the page!