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Probably because they are a russian company [0]. Yes they have an Inc. in the US but most likely the money goes to Russia. They are violating some sanctions. 0
by unpopularopp 4y ago
Probably because they are a russian company [0]. Yes they have an Inc. in the US but most likely the money goes to Russia. They are violating some sanctions.
0, https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1503384490026151938 https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1503384490026151938
0, https://www.flipperdevices.com/jobs https://www.flipperdevices.com/jobs
- James_Kirk 4y agoThey are not Russian taxpayers. Also half of the team is Ukrainian. And the main issue is the silence from PayPal and complete lack of communication.
- justsomehnguy 4y agoI would say what the main issue here is what PayPal allowed them to establish a business account (June 7th) and happily took money from their customers. Now both the company AND it's customers are fuc^W scammed out of their money. Seems like Stripe doesn't have a problem with them (because they are incorporated in Delaware, not in Russia?)
- James_Kirk 4y agoThey have been US company long before the war. You are just saying they are affiliated with Russia just because they have many Russian employees? That's right?
- millzlane 4y agoWasn't the company started by a Native Russian? I remember the kickstarter. https://www.linkedin.com/in/zhovner https://www.linkedin.com/in/zhovner
- James_Kirk 4y agoSo was Google by Sergey Brin, who was born in Russia, so what? :)
- millzlane 4y agoHe was not a Russian citizen living in Russia during that time. So there is a huge difference.
- James_Kirk 4y agoSo what's your point then? Everything made by a Russian is bad or what? :)
- nora-puchreiner 4y agoFlipperzero could have shown more Ukrainians than Russians, but... America could side with the Russians in the conflict and discount the Ukrainians. so "Everything made by Americans are bad and unreliable for foreign users"
- ergocoder 4y agoIt's a US sanction. Yes, it would be bad for the employee who makes the decision that this account isn't within the sanction's scope. If US government disagrees, the employee will likely go to jail. It's expected for companies to overdo the sanction considering that under-doing could get employees a long jail time. Plus, Paypal employees get paid the same whether or not Flipper Zero is within the sanction's scope.
- James_Kirk 4y agoUS sanction against what? Against USA company? Do you know how sanctions work? What kind of sanction is being violated in your opinion?
- ergocoder 4y ago
- blinkerdisc 4y ago
- margiani 4y agoNope, Pavel is Ukrainian from Odessa region. He's Odessa National Polytechnic University alumnus, you can see it in his LinkedIn Profile.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago> You are just saying they are affiliated with Russia And where did I said that?
- James_Kirk 4y agoSorry, I misinterpreted your message
- Anon659 4y agoNo, because they have an office in Moscow and the money ends up going to Russia.
- nora-puchreiner 4y agoThey had a similar issue with Stripe few months ago which was partly resolved (Stripe unblocked 70% of money which was enough to them to go on with production).
- filoleg 4y agoThe team is ethnically split between russian and ukrainian, but that's about it. The company was set up as a non-russian entity way before the war, which is why sanctions didn't cause them much problem when they started shipping the product. Shipping was done through Hong Kong, the manufacturing process (which they went into crazy details about in their blog posts) is done in China. I don't think the whole "they are a russian company" makes much sense as an argument here. For one, it would he helpful if Paypal actually tried explaining their reasoning, instead of staying silent.
- 404mm 4y agoOr could it be because of their product? https://flipperzero.one https://flipperzero.one I’d not be shocked if their product danced somewhere on the line of legality. In a similar way that as it’s illegal to own lock pick set in some states, which can be also considered a personal pentesting hardware.
- rchaud 4y agoUnlikely. The tweet thread says they asked for compliance information related to the business (address etc), which to me indicates it was sanctions-related. I don't understand how they left $1.3m sitting in a single account however. Surely they're not paying for bulk h/w component orders through PP.
- nora-puchreiner 4y agoWhat is sanction-related is SWIFT almost frozen in Russia, for all entities, irregardless their presence in sanction lists. So, if one have money on PayPal, he cannot move it to a bank easily. And then cannot pay from that bank back to a Western contractor. Ironically, as the result of that cross-border slowdown, Russians now have big account balances on PayPal.
- kweks 4y agoIt's not as cut-and-dry as it seems. Noone leaves 1.3M in an account. When your account starts generating income, they place a 'light hold' on the account - requesting 'reasonable' information. During this time, you can still receive funds, and you're promised quick resolution. You provide the documentation. They drag their feet. They request more information. They drag their feet. All the while, your account has accumulated more funds that you can't access. Then, they'll request something impossible, ie: give us proof of delivery (not shipment) of these 500 orders. Inevitably, there'll be one order that was returned / was delivered without signature / etc. You'll try to reship the customer, but you've got a 3 day deadline. You miss the deadline, and the account gets perma-frozen for 180 days, but you still believe you'll get your funds back. 180 days later, you'll be notified that your funds aren't eligible for return, because you cost them the equivalent of what was in your account due to the time invested by their legal and risk teams - because buried in their T&C they evoke Common Law allowing for punitive damages for T&C transgressions. It's calculated extortion to seize as much money as possible.