6 ms·

Almost like keeping them home for two years wasn't the best idea.

xadhominemx 4y ago
I don’t think that’s the right takeaway from the study. Learning loss was barely different in the South vs the Northeast (and worse vs the West) despite more aggressive reopening, and cities had no learning loss despite reopening last. I think there was learning loss for the same reason there’s been a spike in crime - the pandemic was highly disruptive to routines and mental health, whether or not your school was open.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  Crime is up because laws changed. Let's please not try to armchair psychoanalyze crime trends and reduce it to 'disruption.' In New York State, they completely reformed sentencing, and in NYC, progressive DAs and judges are trying everything to avoid sending people to jail (no bail) or prison (diversion first) EVEN in violent and gun crimes.
  - lesuorac 4y ago
    I didn't know NY set laws for the rest of the country as well. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/myths-and-realities-understanding-recent-trends-violent-crime https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/myth...
    - mancerayder 4y ago
      Absolute rubbish cherry-picking of facts and figures. Arguing repeatedly that 'there is no evidence for...' in respect to criminal justice reform and increased crime rates in part of the article, but then makes loosey goosey conjectures about things like trauma from COVID-19 and lack of sidewalks; uses murder stats liberally but doesn't mention the 50 percent increase in violent crimes; points to gun stats but declines to point out that progressive DA's use diversion programs for gun possession, which is essentially like decriminalization of guns. The list goes on. Not mentioned above is the indisputable fact in crime statistics that a very small percentage of the population commits a disproportionately large amount of the crime, especially violent crimes. If you put 2 and 2 together, and remind yourself that the criminal reforms removed in NYS the dangerousness consideration for bail, it's pretty obvious that repeat criminals are allowed to go on sprees. It's bearing out every day in headlines, and the breakdown of trust in the society is because quite simply: you're rubbing shoulders with violent and unhinged people on a daily basis in NYC. I'll take my down votes with glee here. That's the Zeitgeist : denial by the current crop of people in power. And the pendulum will swing back in a few years, as it does.
      - xadhominemx 4y ago
        You completely ignored the relevant argument, which is that crime is up everywhere in the country
  - xadhominemx 4y ago
    Crime is up across the country, though
    - sieabahlpark 4y ago
  - galdosdi 4y ago
    Yeah, that is probably a factor to some degree. I don't doubt it. But the more salient one probably is the social climate of rapidly increasing public distrust, desperation, not giving a shit about each other in society, the zeitgeist as it were. These kinds of wooly vague things do really matter, you know. For example: Do you remember the 2004 northeastern blackout? Of course you do. A third the US/Canada population was without power for a day or two. Nothing terrible happened, no rioting or anything. A lot of observers were amused, relieved by this, because the last big NYC metro area blackouts in the 1970s immediately triggered severe rioting. And clearly, the zeitgeist was quite different in 2004 than in the "End of Growth" supply-crunched 1970s. Considering how dramatically the national mood was shifted by the pandemic, I would not actually be surprised if the rise in crime was largely caused by that. Another example: Did you know violent crime and rioting are significantly more common in the summer than winter? A statistical fact that goes back a long, long time. I advise not being so quick to dismiss the effects of such things, even if they seem more abstract and less simple to understand. The world isn't simple.
- daveslash 4y ago
  Agreed completely. Not to mention: "maybe it wasn't the best idea" _completely_ brushes aside the potential results of having kept them in schools. Keeping them at home obviously had/has its challenges. And if we had to go through this again, perhaps there are ways to improve - but to offer only the snark "maybe it wasn't the best idea" is neither very helpful nor insightful.
  - sieabahlpark 4y ago
silent_cal 4y ago
"Um actually" copers incoming.
janef0421 4y ago
Much of this learning loss is probably more attributable to a lack of systemic preparation for remote learning, rather than an inherent issue in remote issue. That didn't have to be the case; Concerns about a major respiratory pandemic have been around for two decades, so there was plenty of time to put plans in place to handle a shift to remote learning. If that had been done, learning loss would be massively reduced.
kurupt213 4y ago
They have to feign surprise

I don’t think that’s the right takeaway from the study. Learning loss was barely different in the South vs the Northeast (and worse vs the West) despite more aggressive reopening, and cities had no learning loss despite reopening last. I think there was learning loss for the same reason there’s been a spike in crime - the pandemic was highly disruptive to routines and mental health, whether or not your school was open.

mancerayder 4y ago
Crime is up because laws changed. Let's please not try to armchair psychoanalyze crime trends and reduce it to 'disruption.' In New York State, they completely reformed sentencing, and in NYC, progressive DAs and judges are trying everything to avoid sending people to jail (no bail) or prison (diversion first) EVEN in violent and gun crimes.
- lesuorac 4y ago
  I didn't know NY set laws for the rest of the country as well. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/myths-and-realities-understanding-recent-trends-violent-crime https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/myth...
  - mancerayder 4y ago
    Absolute rubbish cherry-picking of facts and figures. Arguing repeatedly that 'there is no evidence for...' in respect to criminal justice reform and increased crime rates in part of the article, but then makes loosey goosey conjectures about things like trauma from COVID-19 and lack of sidewalks; uses murder stats liberally but doesn't mention the 50 percent increase in violent crimes; points to gun stats but declines to point out that progressive DA's use diversion programs for gun possession, which is essentially like decriminalization of guns. The list goes on. Not mentioned above is the indisputable fact in crime statistics that a very small percentage of the population commits a disproportionately large amount of the crime, especially violent crimes. If you put 2 and 2 together, and remind yourself that the criminal reforms removed in NYS the dangerousness consideration for bail, it's pretty obvious that repeat criminals are allowed to go on sprees. It's bearing out every day in headlines, and the breakdown of trust in the society is because quite simply: you're rubbing shoulders with violent and unhinged people on a daily basis in NYC. I'll take my down votes with glee here. That's the Zeitgeist : denial by the current crop of people in power. And the pendulum will swing back in a few years, as it does.
    - xadhominemx 4y ago
      You completely ignored the relevant argument, which is that crime is up everywhere in the country
- xadhominemx 4y ago
  Crime is up across the country, though
  - sieabahlpark 4y ago
- galdosdi 4y ago
  Yeah, that is probably a factor to some degree. I don't doubt it. But the more salient one probably is the social climate of rapidly increasing public distrust, desperation, not giving a shit about each other in society, the zeitgeist as it were. These kinds of wooly vague things do really matter, you know. For example: Do you remember the 2004 northeastern blackout? Of course you do. A third the US/Canada population was without power for a day or two. Nothing terrible happened, no rioting or anything. A lot of observers were amused, relieved by this, because the last big NYC metro area blackouts in the 1970s immediately triggered severe rioting. And clearly, the zeitgeist was quite different in 2004 than in the "End of Growth" supply-crunched 1970s. Considering how dramatically the national mood was shifted by the pandemic, I would not actually be surprised if the rise in crime was largely caused by that. Another example: Did you know violent crime and rioting are significantly more common in the summer than winter? A statistical fact that goes back a long, long time. I advise not being so quick to dismiss the effects of such things, even if they seem more abstract and less simple to understand. The world isn't simple.
daveslash 4y ago
Agreed completely. Not to mention: "maybe it wasn't the best idea" _completely_ brushes aside the potential results of having kept them in schools. Keeping them at home obviously had/has its challenges. And if we had to go through this again, perhaps there are ways to improve - but to offer only the snark "maybe it wasn't the best idea" is neither very helpful nor insightful.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago

silent_cal 4y ago

"Um actually" copers incoming.

janef0421 4y ago

Much of this learning loss is probably more attributable to a lack of systemic preparation for remote learning, rather than an inherent issue in remote issue. That didn't have to be the case; Concerns about a major respiratory pandemic have been around for two decades, so there was plenty of time to put plans in place to handle a shift to remote learning. If that had been done, learning loss would be massively reduced.

kurupt213 4y ago

They have to feign surprise