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I don't know if you've taken a look at Mars yet, but it's already dead. It'll be quite a trick to be able to animate a dead planet to life if one can't keep a l

I don't know if you've taken a look at Mars yet, but it's already dead. It'll be quite a trick to be able to animate a dead planet to life if one can't keep a live planet from dying.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> It'll be quite a trick to be able to animate a dead planet to life if one can't keep a live planet from dying Common refrain is about the folly of trying to fix human problems with technology. Earth is a human problem. We can fix it. But the politics are difficult. Mars is a technology problem. Our species is better at the latter than the former. In any case, the aims are far from competitive.
- im_down_w_otp 4y ago
  Perhaps. The problem of course is that as soon as there's a human on Mars... it becomes a human problem too. There's the dynamics between the humans there. The dynamics between the humans there & here. The dynamics between the people left here supporting the humans there. Unless the expectation is that humans are going to evolve into some blend of hyper-pragmatic altruists the moment they step foot on Mars... it seems like you're going to have a situation where everything is super tense all the time due to every little thing being both life & death and utterly existential, and then you get to mix normal human behavior into the mix. Such a common refrain strikes me as perhaps the most extreme form of myopia to consider Mars is anything but a pile of human problems the literal instant after the first major success of the technological solutions occurs. :shrug:
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Unless the expectation is that humans are going to evolve into some blend of hyper-pragmatic altruists the moment they step foot on Mars Settler sociology is different. People who self select for that risk mode are different. The proximity of mortality is clearer; that influences culture. Much of modern socioeconomics involves compassionately recreating those conditions. On Mars, you get that for free.
  - bumby 4y ago
    But, once sufficiently populated, how do you prevent Mars from becoming a human problem just like Earth? This is one area I'm cynical around: I don't think we have the means to adjust human psychology at the rate we can adjust technology. As the below comment alludes to, maybe the answer is keeping a sufficiently bottlenecked society to force that psychological change. But then you're not really recreating the parts of society that people are worried about losing. You might as well start a self sufficient commune here on Earth.
jsharf 4y ago
Yeah but it has the advantage of everything being 100% sustainable from the beginning. All water and oxygen will need to be recycled, etc.
- im_down_w_otp 4y ago
  Earth is also already 100% sustainable. Humans just refuse to engage in that process. Who's going to be responsible for Mars' sustainability?

I don't know if you've taken a look at Mars yet, but it's already dead. It'll be quite a trick to be able to animate a dead planet to life if one can't keep a live planet from dying.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> It'll be quite a trick to be able to animate a dead planet to life if one can't keep a live planet from dying Common refrain is about the folly of trying to fix human problems with technology. Earth is a human problem. We can fix it. But the politics are difficult. Mars is a technology problem. Our species is better at the latter than the former. In any case, the aims are far from competitive.

im_down_w_otp 4y ago
Perhaps. The problem of course is that as soon as there's a human on Mars... it becomes a human problem too. There's the dynamics between the humans there. The dynamics between the humans there & here. The dynamics between the people left here supporting the humans there. Unless the expectation is that humans are going to evolve into some blend of hyper-pragmatic altruists the moment they step foot on Mars... it seems like you're going to have a situation where everything is super tense all the time due to every little thing being both life & death and utterly existential, and then you get to mix normal human behavior into the mix. Such a common refrain strikes me as perhaps the most extreme form of myopia to consider Mars is anything but a pile of human problems the literal instant after the first major success of the technological solutions occurs. :shrug:
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Unless the expectation is that humans are going to evolve into some blend of hyper-pragmatic altruists the moment they step foot on Mars Settler sociology is different. People who self select for that risk mode are different. The proximity of mortality is clearer; that influences culture. Much of modern socioeconomics involves compassionately recreating those conditions. On Mars, you get that for free.
- bumby 4y ago
  But, once sufficiently populated, how do you prevent Mars from becoming a human problem just like Earth? This is one area I'm cynical around: I don't think we have the means to adjust human psychology at the rate we can adjust technology. As the below comment alludes to, maybe the answer is keeping a sufficiently bottlenecked society to force that psychological change. But then you're not really recreating the parts of society that people are worried about losing. You might as well start a self sufficient commune here on Earth.

jsharf 4y ago

Yeah but it has the advantage of everything being 100% sustainable from the beginning. All water and oxygen will need to be recycled, etc.

im_down_w_otp 4y ago
Earth is also already 100% sustainable. Humans just refuse to engage in that process. Who's going to be responsible for Mars' sustainability?