4 ms·

> It's pretty useful for clearing out odors as long as you air out the space afterwards to help the ozone dissipate. You can skip a step and clear the odors ju

by danans 4y ago

> It's pretty useful for clearing out odors as long as you air out the space afterwards to help the ozone dissipate. You can skip a step and clear the odors just by airing out the space. If the odors are of the type and quantity that airing out the space isn't sufficient, the issue to deal with might be the source of the odors. An air filter with activated carbon can also help reduce odors.

coryrc 4y ago
I had an RV which was previously housing mice. After removing and Killz, it still smelled. Two days with the ozone and it was fine after.
- danans 4y ago
  If it still smelled it is because the waste of the mice remained in the RV. The ozone didn't remove the waste, but probably just reacted with it to neutralize the odor causing VOCs. If you were ok with that state, that's great, but eliminating the source of the odor tends to be more effective way to deal with it.
  - smallerfish 4y ago
    It kills off microbes, does it not? We live in a high humidity environment. When we shut up the house and travel for a couple weeks, there's inevitably a high amount of mildew on our return. I have been contemplating running an ozone generator on a timer while we're out of the house for an extended period to combat this.
    - danans 4y ago
      > I have been contemplating running an ozone generator on a timer while we're out of the house for an extended period to combat this. You would be treating the symptom, not the cause, with a harmful chemical that probably wouldn't completely eliminate the mildew, and have unknown side effects. It would be far better to install a dehumidifier and proper ventilation to manage the mildew problem than killing it off with ozone afterwards.
      - smallerfish 4y ago
        The house isn't sealed to the outside, and we don't typically run AC (or heat). A dehumidifer would just run all day and produce water without affecting the humidity in the house at all (again, because it's not sealed). Very different from US or European build quality. And yes, ozone would leak to the outside, but most of the venting happens from the top of the house. (For reference, there's a $50m house nearby for sale that has no exterior walls at all. It's being sold at a discount - only $12m! - because of a notorious incident that took place there, and the fact that the owner can't return to the country without risking arrest and a fourth trial.)
        danans 4y ago
        > The house isn't sealed to the outside, and we don't typically run AC (or heat). Sounds like you are in or near the tropics. How do you control the mildew when you are at home? Presumably not with ozone, but with ventilation. Can you just have the house do that when you are not there also?
        smallerfish 4y ago
        Yeah. Windows and doors open when we're home, typically (with ceiling fans to move the air). We definitely _could_ install whole house ventilation and leave that running, you're right - it'd just need to be done well, so could be spendy.
        darkteflon 4y ago
        Have you considered something like Mitsubishi Lossnay[1]? The unit itself is not expensive. Also much cheaper to run than aircon and better for the environment. We’re also in a high humidity environment with equally breezy construction standards and have struggled to keep the house mildew-free when we travel in Summer. We eventually settled on running a compressor-dehumidifier 24/7 during those times, but it’s not perfect. We considered installing a Lossnay to create a consistent positive pressure gradient and help with humidity exchange, although in our case construction - although not extensive - is tricky as we’re quite high up. You might be better off. [1] https://sg.mitsubishielectric.com/en/products-solutions/air-conditioning/lossnay/index.html https://sg.mitsubishielectric.com/en/products-solutions/air-...
  - coryrc 4y ago
    According to you, I should have removed every bit of structural material and flooring because the ozone "only" neutralized it? You do realize odors are VOCs, right? Ozone destroyed them. It's great.
    - danans 4y ago
      > You do realize odors are VOCs, right? Odors are caused by some VOCs. Some VOCs have no odor, including harmful ones. > Ozone destroyed them. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.estlett.1c00773 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.estlett.1c00773 Conclusion: "... this work shows that for at least some consumer-grade portable air cleaners that claim to remove VOCs from indoor air, VOC removal may actually be minimal, and the air delivered may contain additional VOCs and/or oxidation byproducts, some of which are known to be harmful to human health."
- causi 4y ago
  I worry about ozone generators degrading electrical components, especially wiring insulation and sensors.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    That's generally a non-issue if used occasionally and at reasonable levels.
- jpk2f2 4y ago
  Worked well for me as well in mildew-y car, still had a smell after replacing all carpet and cleaning every reachable surface. Ozone with air running for an hour resolved it nicely.
giantg2 4y ago
The ozone will destroy the odors, where the filter just traps some.
- danans 4y ago
  It doesn't destroy odors in the air. It reacts with them to turn them into something else which maybe you can't smell. Moreso it can cause the creation of formaldehyde when it reacts with some chemicals in the air. It also inhibits the sense of smell and it can cause the accelerated release of VOCs from materials, which then enters the air. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/air-cleaners-ozone-products/hazardous-ozone-generating-air-purifiers https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/air-cleaners-ozone-... If it works for you, great, but it doesn't destroy anything.
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    If it turns one molecule into another then that's basically destruction.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    "It reacts with them to turn them into something else..." Lol what do you think destroy means?
    - danans 4y ago
      Do you think the byproducts that result from the reaction with ozone are safer to breathe? If not, then you need to air out the room or filter the air, so why not just do that in the first place? Just because you can't smell something because it has been "destroyed" by being converted to something else doesn't mean it's not harmful to health. Again from the EPA: https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/ozone-generators-are-sold-air-cleaners#generators-effective https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/ozone-generators-... "First, a review of scientific research shows that, for many of the chemicals commonly found in indoor environments, the reaction process with ozone may take months or years (Boeniger, 1995). For all practical purposes, ozone does not react at all with such chemicals. And contrary to specific claims by some vendors, ozone generators are not effective in removing carbon monoxide (Salls, 1927; Shaughnessy et al., 1994) or formaldehyde (Esswein and Boeniger, 1994)." "Second, for many of the chemicals with which ozone does readily react, the reaction can form a variety of harmful or irritating by-products (Weschler et al., 1992a, 1992b, 1996; Zhang and Lioy, 1994). For example, in a laboratory experiment that mixed ozone with chemicals from new carpet, ozone reduced many of these chemicals, including those which can produce new carpet odor. However, in the process, the reaction produced a variety of aldehydes, and the total concentration of organic chemicals in the air increased rather than decreased after the introduction of ozone" "Third, ozone does not remove particles (e.g., dust and pollen) from the air, including the particles that cause most allergies. "
thatcat 4y ago
ozone kills bacteria that cause odor

by danans 4y ago

coryrc 4y ago

I had an RV which was previously housing mice. After removing and Killz, it still smelled. Two days with the ozone and it was fine after.

danans 4y ago
If it still smelled it is because the waste of the mice remained in the RV. The ozone didn't remove the waste, but probably just reacted with it to neutralize the odor causing VOCs. If you were ok with that state, that's great, but eliminating the source of the odor tends to be more effective way to deal with it.
- smallerfish 4y ago
  It kills off microbes, does it not? We live in a high humidity environment. When we shut up the house and travel for a couple weeks, there's inevitably a high amount of mildew on our return. I have been contemplating running an ozone generator on a timer while we're out of the house for an extended period to combat this.
  - danans 4y ago
    > I have been contemplating running an ozone generator on a timer while we're out of the house for an extended period to combat this. You would be treating the symptom, not the cause, with a harmful chemical that probably wouldn't completely eliminate the mildew, and have unknown side effects. It would be far better to install a dehumidifier and proper ventilation to manage the mildew problem than killing it off with ozone afterwards.
    - smallerfish 4y ago
      The house isn't sealed to the outside, and we don't typically run AC (or heat). A dehumidifer would just run all day and produce water without affecting the humidity in the house at all (again, because it's not sealed). Very different from US or European build quality. And yes, ozone would leak to the outside, but most of the venting happens from the top of the house. (For reference, there's a $50m house nearby for sale that has no exterior walls at all. It's being sold at a discount - only $12m! - because of a notorious incident that took place there, and the fact that the owner can't return to the country without risking arrest and a fourth trial.)
      - danans 4y ago
        > The house isn't sealed to the outside, and we don't typically run AC (or heat). Sounds like you are in or near the tropics. How do you control the mildew when you are at home? Presumably not with ozone, but with ventilation. Can you just have the house do that when you are not there also?
        smallerfish 4y ago
        Yeah. Windows and doors open when we're home, typically (with ceiling fans to move the air). We definitely _could_ install whole house ventilation and leave that running, you're right - it'd just need to be done well, so could be spendy.
        darkteflon 4y ago
        Have you considered something like Mitsubishi Lossnay[1]? The unit itself is not expensive. Also much cheaper to run than aircon and better for the environment. We’re also in a high humidity environment with equally breezy construction standards and have struggled to keep the house mildew-free when we travel in Summer. We eventually settled on running a compressor-dehumidifier 24/7 during those times, but it’s not perfect. We considered installing a Lossnay to create a consistent positive pressure gradient and help with humidity exchange, although in our case construction - although not extensive - is tricky as we’re quite high up. You might be better off. [1] https://sg.mitsubishielectric.com/en/products-solutions/air-conditioning/lossnay/index.html https://sg.mitsubishielectric.com/en/products-solutions/air-...
- coryrc 4y ago
  According to you, I should have removed every bit of structural material and flooring because the ozone "only" neutralized it? You do realize odors are VOCs, right? Ozone destroyed them. It's great.
  - danans 4y ago
    > You do realize odors are VOCs, right? Odors are caused by some VOCs. Some VOCs have no odor, including harmful ones. > Ozone destroyed them. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.estlett.1c00773 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.estlett.1c00773 Conclusion: "... this work shows that for at least some consumer-grade portable air cleaners that claim to remove VOCs from indoor air, VOC removal may actually be minimal, and the air delivered may contain additional VOCs and/or oxidation byproducts, some of which are known to be harmful to human health."
causi 4y ago
I worry about ozone generators degrading electrical components, especially wiring insulation and sensors.
- giantg2 4y ago
  That's generally a non-issue if used occasionally and at reasonable levels.
jpk2f2 4y ago
Worked well for me as well in mildew-y car, still had a smell after replacing all carpet and cleaning every reachable surface. Ozone with air running for an hour resolved it nicely.

giantg2 4y ago

The ozone will destroy the odors, where the filter just traps some.

danans 4y ago
It doesn't destroy odors in the air. It reacts with them to turn them into something else which maybe you can't smell. Moreso it can cause the creation of formaldehyde when it reacts with some chemicals in the air. It also inhibits the sense of smell and it can cause the accelerated release of VOCs from materials, which then enters the air. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/air-cleaners-ozone-products/hazardous-ozone-generating-air-purifiers https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/air-cleaners-ozone-... If it works for you, great, but it doesn't destroy anything.
- cinntaile 4y ago
  If it turns one molecule into another then that's basically destruction.
- giantg2 4y ago
  "It reacts with them to turn them into something else..." Lol what do you think destroy means?
  - danans 4y ago
    Do you think the byproducts that result from the reaction with ozone are safer to breathe? If not, then you need to air out the room or filter the air, so why not just do that in the first place? Just because you can't smell something because it has been "destroyed" by being converted to something else doesn't mean it's not harmful to health. Again from the EPA: https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/ozone-generators-are-sold-air-cleaners#generators-effective https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/ozone-generators-... "First, a review of scientific research shows that, for many of the chemicals commonly found in indoor environments, the reaction process with ozone may take months or years (Boeniger, 1995). For all practical purposes, ozone does not react at all with such chemicals. And contrary to specific claims by some vendors, ozone generators are not effective in removing carbon monoxide (Salls, 1927; Shaughnessy et al., 1994) or formaldehyde (Esswein and Boeniger, 1994)." "Second, for many of the chemicals with which ozone does readily react, the reaction can form a variety of harmful or irritating by-products (Weschler et al., 1992a, 1992b, 1996; Zhang and Lioy, 1994). For example, in a laboratory experiment that mixed ozone with chemicals from new carpet, ozone reduced many of these chemicals, including those which can produce new carpet odor. However, in the process, the reaction produced a variety of aldehydes, and the total concentration of organic chemicals in the air increased rather than decreased after the introduction of ozone" "Third, ozone does not remove particles (e.g., dust and pollen) from the air, including the particles that cause most allergies. "

thatcat 4y ago

ozone kills bacteria that cause odor