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What does Bitcoin energy consumption have to do with CERN? Don't forget most mining is done in China, not Europe. And your first link mainly tries to show that

What does Bitcoin energy consumption have to do with CERN? Don't forget most mining is done in China, not Europe. And your first link mainly tries to show that Bitcoin consumption isn't a lot compared to other uses. So I don't really see the point.

squarefoot 4y ago
> What does Bitcoin energy consumption have to do with CERN? Priorities. Bitcoin (as other POW based cryptocurrencies) waste a huge load of energy, with a single Bitcoin transaction that cost over US$100 of energy (old estimation when energy costs were a lot lower) and mining farms sprouting everywhere hosting thousands of nodes of which each one draws 2000-5000 Watts, just like one or two heaters, but kept on 24/7 with their fans pumping heat into the atmosphere. My point is that before looking at CERN, maybe, just maybe, they should look at other places where energy is wasted by turning it directly into money (and heat), also without creating businesses and jobs.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Aha I see. I don't think that's very doable though. Bitcoin ASICs only stay relevant for a short time, when they're surpassed by more efficient models, and no longer economically viable. I doubt the owners of these are willing to turn them off and let their investment expire without using them. Also, the increasing cost of electricity dramatically reduces that write-off period. Besides that, CERN is mostly publicly funded and one huge consumer so the government has lots of control over them which they don't have over miners, which are also more fragmented between many different operators. And the research CERN do is not time critical. So I still think it makes sense. CERN is one thing they can actually do without too much trouble and has a relatively large effect.
automatic6131 4y ago
They have been kicked out of China. Most went to the US, some went to other places in central Asia (e.g. Kazakhstan) but they largely left for the US. And some later left central Asia after causing various local blackouts and contributing nothing to their host country other than small bribes and sucking up energy subsidies.
- Victerius 4y ago
  You gotta admire the Chinese bureaucracy for not using kid's gloves when dealing with a problem. In the U.S. you would have miners suing the government, or the government suing the miners, the legality of crypto mining would make its way through the court system and eventually reach the Supreme Court. Then you would have governors possibly standing up to the federal government to retain their miners. In China, the government can decide overnight to kick crypto miners to the curb. No lawsuits, no court cases, no grand speeches, just an enforcement action without possibility of recourse.
  - cronix 4y ago
    Then why are their economy and financial sectors sinking so fast? Can't they just order it corrected?
    - kennend3 4y ago
      https://statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-economy.php https://statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-e... if you look carefully, you can see that based on PPP China has overtaken the US. You may also notice that the US is the one on the downtrend? Most countries have had serious economic and financial issues over the last few years.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      They can, and they have. China has been building ghost cities for years to prop up their own capital figures, all those apartments would be on the books for prices no Chinese could afford, and stayed empty for years. It seems to have worked out for them and eventually the cities became inhabited. But it was a huge gamble and here in the west we would call it a scam. Of course one thing you can't fake is international currency when trading with other countries. But this is one thing China has more than enough of because we all pay them to make our goods.
      - effie 4y ago
        That may be the biggest "fake it till you make it" operation in history...

squarefoot 4y ago

> What does Bitcoin energy consumption have to do with CERN? Priorities. Bitcoin (as other POW based cryptocurrencies) waste a huge load of energy, with a single Bitcoin transaction that cost over US$100 of energy (old estimation when energy costs were a lot lower) and mining farms sprouting everywhere hosting thousands of nodes of which each one draws 2000-5000 Watts, just like one or two heaters, but kept on 24/7 with their fans pumping heat into the atmosphere. My point is that before looking at CERN, maybe, just maybe, they should look at other places where energy is wasted by turning it directly into money (and heat), also without creating businesses and jobs.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Aha I see. I don't think that's very doable though. Bitcoin ASICs only stay relevant for a short time, when they're surpassed by more efficient models, and no longer economically viable. I doubt the owners of these are willing to turn them off and let their investment expire without using them. Also, the increasing cost of electricity dramatically reduces that write-off period. Besides that, CERN is mostly publicly funded and one huge consumer so the government has lots of control over them which they don't have over miners, which are also more fragmented between many different operators. And the research CERN do is not time critical. So I still think it makes sense. CERN is one thing they can actually do without too much trouble and has a relatively large effect.

automatic6131 4y ago

They have been kicked out of China. Most went to the US, some went to other places in central Asia (e.g. Kazakhstan) but they largely left for the US. And some later left central Asia after causing various local blackouts and contributing nothing to their host country other than small bribes and sucking up energy subsidies.

Victerius 4y ago
You gotta admire the Chinese bureaucracy for not using kid's gloves when dealing with a problem. In the U.S. you would have miners suing the government, or the government suing the miners, the legality of crypto mining would make its way through the court system and eventually reach the Supreme Court. Then you would have governors possibly standing up to the federal government to retain their miners. In China, the government can decide overnight to kick crypto miners to the curb. No lawsuits, no court cases, no grand speeches, just an enforcement action without possibility of recourse.
- cronix 4y ago
  Then why are their economy and financial sectors sinking so fast? Can't they just order it corrected?
  - kennend3 4y ago
    https://statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-economy.php https://statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-e... if you look carefully, you can see that based on PPP China has overtaken the US. You may also notice that the US is the one on the downtrend? Most countries have had serious economic and financial issues over the last few years.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    They can, and they have. China has been building ghost cities for years to prop up their own capital figures, all those apartments would be on the books for prices no Chinese could afford, and stayed empty for years. It seems to have worked out for them and eventually the cities became inhabited. But it was a huge gamble and here in the west we would call it a scam. Of course one thing you can't fake is international currency when trading with other countries. But this is one thing China has more than enough of because we all pay them to make our goods.
    - effie 4y ago
      That may be the biggest "fake it till you make it" operation in history...