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> French nuclear reactors [...] offline because of massive defects There's no "massive defects" involved, it's a combination of 1. regular refueling maintenanc

> French nuclear reactors [...] offline because of massive defects There's no "massive defects" involved, it's a combination of 1. regular refueling maintenance which happens every summer; 2. some maintenance being delayed due to COVID-19 that was finally able to be scheduled this year; 3. a minor corrosion issue [1] being found with the welds in one of the newer plants, leading the power plant operator to stop all similar plants for safety reasons to be manually inspected. > barely producing due to a lack of cooling water There's plenty of cooling water, it's just warmer than usual upstream of some of the plants, and the plants have rules about not rejecting water above a certain temperature to the river in order to protect wildlife. These rules can be waived and in fact have been waived several times this summer and previous summers to continue producing at higher load -- it sucks for the fishes that get +1°C, but we're basically making a choice between warming up the rivers or warming up the planet with more CO2 emissions. This is indeed the same situation as in Beznau (CH, the article you linked), but absolutely not comparable to the problems with hydro in Italy that are actually due to lack of water. You can't waive a lack of water. > no indication at all that the situation in France will clear up any time soon (1) and (2) are absolutely going to clear up by winter. https://nuclear-monitor.fr/ https://nuclear-monitor.fr/ shows the planned maintenance end dates. Just by the end of the month EDF is planning to have 11-12GW back online [2] (though their maintenance end dates tend to slip up by a few days in general). That leaves the 12 reactors (out of 56) impacted by (3). I suspect that if it actually comes to blackouts, (3) might also clear out, if we decide that the minor safety risk of the welding issues is less bad than the people actually dying due to lack of power. Unfortunately anything involving nuclear safety makes people freak out and require 100% reliability, even when it's absolutely irrational to do so and causes more human deaths. [1] https://www.irsn.fr/FR/Actualites_presse/Actualites/Pages/20211216_NI-Detection-fissures-tuyauteries-RIS-reacteurs-1-2-Civaux.aspx https://www.irsn.fr/FR/Actualites_presse/Actualites/Pages/20... [2] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbeQue0XkAAraJu?format=png&name=240x240 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbeQue0XkAAraJu?format=png&name=...

mschuster91 4y ago
> 3. a minor corrosion issue [1] being found with the welds in one of the newer plants, leading the power plant operator to stop all similar plants for safety reasons to be manually inspected. Minor? Your link is outdated. EDF was forced to prolong the shutdowns recently [1]. > (1) and (2) are absolutely going to clear up by winter. It will, but the drought is likely to reappear next summer, which is why not just the spot electricity market is bananas but also the futures market. Additionally, there is the very real potential of further issues cropping up - the French plants are almost all extremely old [2] > Unfortunately anything involving nuclear safety makes people freak out and require 100% reliability, even when it's absolutely irrational to do so and causes more human deaths. Well, the problem with nuclear is that even a tiny fuck up has the potential to irradiate a large region for decades. We still can't eat game or shrooms in Bavaria without checking them for radiation levels, and that over 35 years after Chernobyl. [1] https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-shutdown-of-nuclear-reactors-over-corrosion-amid-rising-energy-prices https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Fran...
- delroth 4y ago
  > Minor? Your link is outdated. EDF was forced to prolong the shutdowns recently [1]. Your link doesn't say anything about the severity of the issue, just the number of reactors it impacts (12, which is the same number I indicated). > It will, but the drought is likely to reappear next summer Sure, by then the welding issues are hopefully finally addressed (the plan is to have the maintenance done by January, but I strongly suspect this will slip by a few months) and then it's only the regular refueling which has been happening in summer for almost 50 years. > which is why not just the spot electricity market is bananas but also the futures market Well, no, that's due to a lack of electricity production capacity. Issues with the french nuclear fleet are part of that problem, but they're not all of that problem. > even a tiny fuck up has the potential to irradiate a large region for decades Absolutely not. Tiny fuckups happen all the time and have no consequence. Major fuckups happen once in a while and also have no consequence (TMI, for example). Huge fuckups have happened twice in the past 40 years, and only once with major irradiation consequences (Fukushima Daiichi has roughly no exclusion zone left at this point 11 years after the accident, the last town has been reopened earlier this year). The nuclear industry has learned from all these fuckups, from the tiniest ones to the catastrophic ones, and something like the issue at Chornobyl just cannot happen in France.

mschuster91 4y ago

> 3. a minor corrosion issue [1] being found with the welds in one of the newer plants, leading the power plant operator to stop all similar plants for safety reasons to be manually inspected. Minor? Your link is outdated. EDF was forced to prolong the shutdowns recently [1]. > (1) and (2) are absolutely going to clear up by winter. It will, but the drought is likely to reappear next summer, which is why not just the spot electricity market is bananas but also the futures market. Additionally, there is the very real potential of further issues cropping up - the French plants are almost all extremely old [2] > Unfortunately anything involving nuclear safety makes people freak out and require 100% reliability, even when it's absolutely irrational to do so and causes more human deaths. Well, the problem with nuclear is that even a tiny fuck up has the potential to irradiate a large region for decades. We still can't eat game or shrooms in Bavaria without checking them for radiation levels, and that over 35 years after Chernobyl. [1] https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-shutdown-of-nuclear-reactors-over-corrosion-amid-rising-energy-prices https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220825-france-prolongs-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Fran...

delroth 4y ago
> Minor? Your link is outdated. EDF was forced to prolong the shutdowns recently [1]. Your link doesn't say anything about the severity of the issue, just the number of reactors it impacts (12, which is the same number I indicated). > It will, but the drought is likely to reappear next summer Sure, by then the welding issues are hopefully finally addressed (the plan is to have the maintenance done by January, but I strongly suspect this will slip by a few months) and then it's only the regular refueling which has been happening in summer for almost 50 years. > which is why not just the spot electricity market is bananas but also the futures market Well, no, that's due to a lack of electricity production capacity. Issues with the french nuclear fleet are part of that problem, but they're not all of that problem. > even a tiny fuck up has the potential to irradiate a large region for decades Absolutely not. Tiny fuckups happen all the time and have no consequence. Major fuckups happen once in a while and also have no consequence (TMI, for example). Huge fuckups have happened twice in the past 40 years, and only once with major irradiation consequences (Fukushima Daiichi has roughly no exclusion zone left at this point 11 years after the accident, the last town has been reopened earlier this year). The nuclear industry has learned from all these fuckups, from the tiniest ones to the catastrophic ones, and something like the issue at Chornobyl just cannot happen in France.