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I don't know if I have any chance of convincing you (or anyone) given the current political entrenchment, but I will try. That it took this long for Big Tech c

by samuel 4y ago

I don't know if I have any chance of convincing you (or anyone) given the current political entrenchment, but I will try. That it took this long for Big Tech companies to take fascists seriously enough to remove some of them from social media should serve as a wake-up call: Elites tend to realize the dangers of fascism only when violent flash points hit close to home. It is workers and historically marginalized people who are—and always have been—the anti-fascist front line. If progressives are to ensure that technical systems aren’t yoked to a far-right agenda, they’ll need to stop relying on legislative maneuvering or entreaties to corporations and, together with these frontline actors globally, vie for control over the infrastructure itself. I read this as "I believe that Democrats have a grip on Big Tech" (that's the point of many trumpists, she seems to agree with them). But instead of presenting it as a bad thing, she thinks that it's not enough and the control over the infraestructure should be stronger.

kbelder 4y ago
Wait, is that actually verbatim what she wrote? Not a uncharitable paraphrasing?
ShamelessC 4y ago
There is a difference between uninformed/reactionary “woke” views and this, which is just someone explaining a few of their personal convictions and political beliefs. She’s not “parroting republicans” by saying tech is largely operated by people who are elite and (ostensibly) liberal. As far as I know, this isn’t controversial amongst liberals - just a projection made up by Fox News anchors and talk radio hosts as they shout “hypocrisy!” while being funded by the likes of Rupert Murdoch. Didn’t you read the part about fascism? She’s talking about republicans lol, you realize that right?
- samuel 4y ago
  > She’s not “parroting republicans” by saying tech is largely operated by people who are elite and (ostensibly) liberal. As far as I know, this isn’t controversial amongst liberals - just a projection made up by Fox News anchors and talk radio hosts as they shout “hypocrisy!” while being funded by the likes of Rupert Murdoch. I don't watch Fox News, just read comments on american dominated forums like this one and reddit (the regular subrredits like r/news or r/europe, not obscure ones). And I my impression is that the average left-leaning user does not openly acknowledge that there is a leftist bias on Twitter or Youtube. On the contrary. > Didn’t you read the part about fascism? She’s talking about republicans lol, you realize that right? I don't understand what you mean, I'm sorry, but I have read the whole thing.
  - ShamelessC 4y ago
    Would you agree that you don’t have a very nuanced understanding of American politics? I’m not trying to be rude, but you’re picking sides in a discussion you don’t seem to fully grok and I don’t really have time to explain the dramatic/stressful shift that has occurred in American politics since the oughts. Collecting your sample from the internet is collecting an inherently biased sample though - please don’t do that. Or if you do, don’t bring it into a discussion like it’s somehow useful information and not noise. there is more depth to Americans than sensationalist culture war click bait would have you believe.
    - samuel 4y ago
      I'm consider myself well versed on american politics, and I'm not picking sides. Believe or not I read more about american politics every day than about politics of my own country. Reading random guys in the internet it's not the only thing I do and I don't think I implied that. It was just a data point to support that the notion that it's not widely accepted that leftist bias is present in some tech platforms. I have the impression you are trying to "defeat" without the need of presenting any argument just because I'm not american. If you want some kind of victory it's yours. If you have convincing arguments I will be delighted to hear them. Still waiting, though.
      - ShamelessC 4y ago
        No - I said what I said, which is that I don’t have time to get into everything you may not know about. Call it a stalemate if you need to. For what it’s worth, I respect that American internet culture is perhaps inescapable for non-Americans and am not refusing discussion based on that. It’s mostly about how you didn’t know she was referring to Trump supporters as fascist (a concept I imagine you would disagree with, based on your statements so far), but well - a good deal of Trump supporters became radicalized fascists resulting in the events of Jan. 6. Not to mention the bulk of the Republican Party incorrectly believes that the 2020 election was stolen.
        4y ago
willnonya 4y ago
The fact that she professes a need to defend the left's position rather than remaining politically neutral is a red flag. Furthing the myth that fascism only exist on the far right is also a dangerous position. It ignores the existence of authoritarians and fascist tactics and desired outcomes all along the political spectrum. I'd have felt much better had she been a liberal rather than a progressive.

by samuel 4y ago

kbelder 4y ago

Wait, is that actually verbatim what she wrote? Not a uncharitable paraphrasing?

ShamelessC 4y ago

There is a difference between uninformed/reactionary “woke” views and this, which is just someone explaining a few of their personal convictions and political beliefs. She’s not “parroting republicans” by saying tech is largely operated by people who are elite and (ostensibly) liberal. As far as I know, this isn’t controversial amongst liberals - just a projection made up by Fox News anchors and talk radio hosts as they shout “hypocrisy!” while being funded by the likes of Rupert Murdoch. Didn’t you read the part about fascism? She’s talking about republicans lol, you realize that right?

samuel 4y ago
> She’s not “parroting republicans” by saying tech is largely operated by people who are elite and (ostensibly) liberal. As far as I know, this isn’t controversial amongst liberals - just a projection made up by Fox News anchors and talk radio hosts as they shout “hypocrisy!” while being funded by the likes of Rupert Murdoch. I don't watch Fox News, just read comments on american dominated forums like this one and reddit (the regular subrredits like r/news or r/europe, not obscure ones). And I my impression is that the average left-leaning user does not openly acknowledge that there is a leftist bias on Twitter or Youtube. On the contrary. > Didn’t you read the part about fascism? She’s talking about republicans lol, you realize that right? I don't understand what you mean, I'm sorry, but I have read the whole thing.
- ShamelessC 4y ago
  Would you agree that you don’t have a very nuanced understanding of American politics? I’m not trying to be rude, but you’re picking sides in a discussion you don’t seem to fully grok and I don’t really have time to explain the dramatic/stressful shift that has occurred in American politics since the oughts. Collecting your sample from the internet is collecting an inherently biased sample though - please don’t do that. Or if you do, don’t bring it into a discussion like it’s somehow useful information and not noise. there is more depth to Americans than sensationalist culture war click bait would have you believe.
  - samuel 4y ago
    I'm consider myself well versed on american politics, and I'm not picking sides. Believe or not I read more about american politics every day than about politics of my own country. Reading random guys in the internet it's not the only thing I do and I don't think I implied that. It was just a data point to support that the notion that it's not widely accepted that leftist bias is present in some tech platforms. I have the impression you are trying to "defeat" without the need of presenting any argument just because I'm not american. If you want some kind of victory it's yours. If you have convincing arguments I will be delighted to hear them. Still waiting, though.
    - ShamelessC 4y ago
      No - I said what I said, which is that I don’t have time to get into everything you may not know about. Call it a stalemate if you need to. For what it’s worth, I respect that American internet culture is perhaps inescapable for non-Americans and am not refusing discussion based on that. It’s mostly about how you didn’t know she was referring to Trump supporters as fascist (a concept I imagine you would disagree with, based on your statements so far), but well - a good deal of Trump supporters became radicalized fascists resulting in the events of Jan. 6. Not to mention the bulk of the Republican Party incorrectly believes that the 2020 election was stolen.
      - 4y ago

willnonya 4y ago

The fact that she professes a need to defend the left's position rather than remaining politically neutral is a red flag. Furthing the myth that fascism only exist on the far right is also a dangerous position. It ignores the existence of authoritarians and fascist tactics and desired outcomes all along the political spectrum. I'd have felt much better had she been a liberal rather than a progressive.