5 ms·

>Fans of Hall-effect mechanical switches note that they should last longer than traditional mechanical switches since they don't rely on metallic contact, which

>Fans of Hall-effect mechanical switches note that they should last longer than traditional mechanical switches since they don't rely on metallic contact, which can result in degradation. Has anyone ever typed so much on a keyboard that the switches wore out? Aren't they good for literally millions of actuations?

caboteria 4y ago
In the opposite direction: I had a keyboard once that I set aside for a couple of years and when I tried to use it again some of the keys didn't register reliably. It took a couple of days of use before everything worked smoothly.
- lsaferite 4y ago
  Sounds like contact corrosion (assuming it was a mechanical keyboard)
pasabagi 4y ago
I don't know if 'worn out' is the correct term, but I've definitely typed my way through a few x220 keyboards. It just takes one dead key for the whole keyboard to be useless.
shakna 4y ago
> Has anyone ever typed so much on a keyboard that the switches wore out? Aren't they good for literally millions of actuations? Yeah. Several. The keyboard might claim it's good for millions of actuations, but I write as well as program. At the end of the editing process, I have roughly 80,000 words entering the public sphere, a month. Excluding all rewriting. Imagine the abuse the spacebar has seen by the end of that. It doesn't take much to scale that out to be murderous on cheaper keyboards, and serious wear and tear on the tougher ones.
- dendriti 4y ago
  A keyboard doesn't claim to be good for millions of actuations. You're referring to (a single) switch, which cost less than a dollar even for the most premium switches. They are easily replaced.
arinlen 4y ago
> Has anyone ever typed so much on a keyboard that the switches wore out? Aren't they good for literally millions of actuations? There are always non-zero odds that equipment deteriorates to the point it ceases to function, and failures due to wear increase with use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve I had a keyboard fail on me because the spacebar ceased to trigger reliably. It was a cheap Chinese "let's shove a cheap laptop keyboard in an even cheaper plastic chassis to make it a small form factor USB keyboard". It took a couple of years of daily use but eventually the switch was kaput. Also, arguably the most famous case of keyboards failing is Apple's infamous MacBook pro keyboard and it's propensity for phantom key presses.
grumbel 4y ago
Millions of actuation might sound a lot, but you can reach those within a couple of months while gaming. Dirt ingress also can easily kill a switch. On my mice and trackballs I have to replace the micro-switches every 3-5 years, as they'll develop unintentional double-clicks, and that's without any fast paced gaming.
ajuc 4y ago
My 2016 laptop's keyboard wore down last year (only a few keys, but that's enough to make it unusable). BTW it's a very nice gaming laptop and it's pretty good quality, I'm still using it with an external keyboard, I'll probably replace it next year.
AlexDragusin 4y ago
If your time permits, this should give you a clear image on switches vs marketing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BhECVlKJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BhECVlKJA
- adrianN 4y ago
  That's a very interesting video. Thanks.
DiabloD3 4y ago
Although the answer is literally yes, it is meaningfully no. I have a keyboard that uses plate mounted Cherry MX reds, not lubed, pre re-tool (so the stems are a smidgen wobbly), and otherwise unremarkable. It is now 10 years old. None of the switches have failed, and the most I had to do was replace the stock PBT keycaps with new ones because I had worn them down until they were smooth (very undesirable to type on). These keycaps seem to be better than the stock ones (a really cheap set of doubleshot-thick but dye sub colored I got for $30-some), and probably is at least another decade before I have to do it again. I am probably past the million mark on important keys like WASD or space.
jcynix 4y ago
>Has anyone ever typed so much on a keyboard that the switches wore out? Sure, somewhere in my collection of "stuff" there still rest two Cherry keyboards (mechanical, gold contacts) where certain keys stopped working reliably, the vowels a or e, IIRC. They rest (instead of being disposed off) because I plan(ned) to open them sometime in the future to check if they malfunction due to corrosion, dirt or just mechanical wear.
michaelgrafl 4y ago
Not complete failure. But things like unreliable detection or double-detection, yes. But in my case those happenend a lot sooner than their projected lifespan.
323 4y ago
I have a 5yo Cherry MX keyboard, and the rarely used keys (Scroll Lock, Pause, numpad) have a somewhat more defined feeling when they actuate than the most commonly used ones. The difference is subtle, but it's there.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  That's probably the spring mechanism wearing out - the actual electrical part is still working properly.
  - Majromax 4y ago
    That's also the part that isn't worn out under this hall effect approach; the keys are magnetically levitated.
    - londons_explore 4y ago
      Unfortunately a magnetic approach alone won't easily give a suitable force Vs displacement curve for a keyboard. The affirmative 'clunk' feeling as a key goes down isn't easy to replicate with fixed magnets
    - lsaferite 4y ago
      The key stems in a hall-effect key switch still use a spring. The magnet is not providing any (effective) movement resistance or levitation. It's there simply to provide the magnetic field for the sensor to measure.
dotancohen 4y ago
I've worn out at least two MS Ergonomic keyboards, I'm I'll diligently working on my third. I've worn out two Matias Pro Ergo keyboards, and another one will probably replace this MS board. I've worn out quite a few Cherry and Cherry-compatible switches, but I've been able to replace just the switches in those cases.
ziml77 4y ago
I recently had to replace a switch on my board, so it can happen.
sluongng 4y ago
My current brown switch keyboard has lost all tactile bumps after 3+ years. In the past, with starcraft apm spams, i definitely have experienced switches defects(dust collect over years, hard to repair) and keycaps defects on some of the more frequently used keys.
tapland 4y ago
I've seen keys fail after heavy use, but so far all of them have been the solder joints connecting the switch to the circuit board giving up. Mouse switches on the other hand...
- sebazzz 4y ago
  Logitech of all manufacturers failed in this big time with their G1 gaming mouse. Press and hold can intermittently show as a released button, very much fun when dragging lines in Fusion 360 and then asking myself why the line is not continuous.
userbinator 4y ago
I think it has more to do with how hard some people type, rather than how much; I've never worn out keyswitches but heard of plenty of others who did. Yet I've definitely typed more than several megabytes of text.
aidenn0 4y ago
I've worn out 3 switches on a model M.
spiffytech 4y ago
I had to replace a full set of Gateron switches because a growing number of my keys wouldn't input anything when pressed. They had come to feel mushy and didn't have the distinctive 'click' sound anymore.

caboteria 4y ago

In the opposite direction: I had a keyboard once that I set aside for a couple of years and when I tried to use it again some of the keys didn't register reliably. It took a couple of days of use before everything worked smoothly.

lsaferite 4y ago
Sounds like contact corrosion (assuming it was a mechanical keyboard)

pasabagi 4y ago

I don't know if 'worn out' is the correct term, but I've definitely typed my way through a few x220 keyboards. It just takes one dead key for the whole keyboard to be useless.

shakna 4y ago

> Has anyone ever typed so much on a keyboard that the switches wore out? Aren't they good for literally millions of actuations? Yeah. Several. The keyboard might claim it's good for millions of actuations, but I write as well as program. At the end of the editing process, I have roughly 80,000 words entering the public sphere, a month. Excluding all rewriting. Imagine the abuse the spacebar has seen by the end of that. It doesn't take much to scale that out to be murderous on cheaper keyboards, and serious wear and tear on the tougher ones.

dendriti 4y ago
A keyboard doesn't claim to be good for millions of actuations. You're referring to (a single) switch, which cost less than a dollar even for the most premium switches. They are easily replaced.

arinlen 4y ago

> Has anyone ever typed so much on a keyboard that the switches wore out? Aren't they good for literally millions of actuations? There are always non-zero odds that equipment deteriorates to the point it ceases to function, and failures due to wear increase with use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve I had a keyboard fail on me because the spacebar ceased to trigger reliably. It was a cheap Chinese "let's shove a cheap laptop keyboard in an even cheaper plastic chassis to make it a small form factor USB keyboard". It took a couple of years of daily use but eventually the switch was kaput. Also, arguably the most famous case of keyboards failing is Apple's infamous MacBook pro keyboard and it's propensity for phantom key presses.

grumbel 4y ago

Millions of actuation might sound a lot, but you can reach those within a couple of months while gaming. Dirt ingress also can easily kill a switch. On my mice and trackballs I have to replace the micro-switches every 3-5 years, as they'll develop unintentional double-clicks, and that's without any fast paced gaming.

ajuc 4y ago

My 2016 laptop's keyboard wore down last year (only a few keys, but that's enough to make it unusable). BTW it's a very nice gaming laptop and it's pretty good quality, I'm still using it with an external keyboard, I'll probably replace it next year.

AlexDragusin 4y ago

If your time permits, this should give you a clear image on switches vs marketing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BhECVlKJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BhECVlKJA

adrianN 4y ago
That's a very interesting video. Thanks.

DiabloD3 4y ago

Although the answer is literally yes, it is meaningfully no. I have a keyboard that uses plate mounted Cherry MX reds, not lubed, pre re-tool (so the stems are a smidgen wobbly), and otherwise unremarkable. It is now 10 years old. None of the switches have failed, and the most I had to do was replace the stock PBT keycaps with new ones because I had worn them down until they were smooth (very undesirable to type on). These keycaps seem to be better than the stock ones (a really cheap set of doubleshot-thick but dye sub colored I got for $30-some), and probably is at least another decade before I have to do it again. I am probably past the million mark on important keys like WASD or space.

jcynix 4y ago

>Has anyone ever typed so much on a keyboard that the switches wore out? Sure, somewhere in my collection of "stuff" there still rest two Cherry keyboards (mechanical, gold contacts) where certain keys stopped working reliably, the vowels a or e, IIRC. They rest (instead of being disposed off) because I plan(ned) to open them sometime in the future to check if they malfunction due to corrosion, dirt or just mechanical wear.

michaelgrafl 4y ago

Not complete failure. But things like unreliable detection or double-detection, yes. But in my case those happenend a lot sooner than their projected lifespan.

323 4y ago

I have a 5yo Cherry MX keyboard, and the rarely used keys (Scroll Lock, Pause, numpad) have a somewhat more defined feeling when they actuate than the most commonly used ones. The difference is subtle, but it's there.

londons_explore 4y ago
That's probably the spring mechanism wearing out - the actual electrical part is still working properly.
- Majromax 4y ago
  That's also the part that isn't worn out under this hall effect approach; the keys are magnetically levitated.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    Unfortunately a magnetic approach alone won't easily give a suitable force Vs displacement curve for a keyboard. The affirmative 'clunk' feeling as a key goes down isn't easy to replicate with fixed magnets
  - lsaferite 4y ago
    The key stems in a hall-effect key switch still use a spring. The magnet is not providing any (effective) movement resistance or levitation. It's there simply to provide the magnetic field for the sensor to measure.

dotancohen 4y ago

I've worn out at least two MS Ergonomic keyboards, I'm I'll diligently working on my third. I've worn out two Matias Pro Ergo keyboards, and another one will probably replace this MS board. I've worn out quite a few Cherry and Cherry-compatible switches, but I've been able to replace just the switches in those cases.

ziml77 4y ago

I recently had to replace a switch on my board, so it can happen.

sluongng 4y ago

My current brown switch keyboard has lost all tactile bumps after 3+ years. In the past, with starcraft apm spams, i definitely have experienced switches defects(dust collect over years, hard to repair) and keycaps defects on some of the more frequently used keys.

tapland 4y ago

I've seen keys fail after heavy use, but so far all of them have been the solder joints connecting the switch to the circuit board giving up. Mouse switches on the other hand...

sebazzz 4y ago
Logitech of all manufacturers failed in this big time with their G1 gaming mouse. Press and hold can intermittently show as a released button, very much fun when dragging lines in Fusion 360 and then asking myself why the line is not continuous.

userbinator 4y ago

I think it has more to do with how hard some people type, rather than how much; I've never worn out keyswitches but heard of plenty of others who did. Yet I've definitely typed more than several megabytes of text.

aidenn0 4y ago

I've worn out 3 switches on a model M.

spiffytech 4y ago

I had to replace a full set of Gateron switches because a growing number of my keys wouldn't input anything when pressed. They had come to feel mushy and didn't have the distinctive 'click' sound anymore.