4 ms·

Tolkien created one of the most fleshed out fantasy universes to date. As a result, there's a not inconsiderable number of die hard fans who don't react well t

by blihp 4y ago

Tolkien created one of the most fleshed out fantasy universes to date. As a result, there's a not inconsiderable number of die hard fans who don't react well to disregarding canon as there is a rather insane amount of detail spelled out in the books. As long as one can get in the mindset of 'this is some disposable Tolkien-ish fantasy content', it's an OK bit of filler (IMO, having watched the first couple of episodes)

ethbr0 4y ago
This feels different though. (a) Most of the angry people haven't even watched (!) the few episodes (!!) that are out. (b) I'm not sure most of the outraged are Tolkien fans. It honestly feels more like dog piling / mob hysteria. When did we become consumers of visual media where "I don't like it, and I haven't and won't watch it" is a valid position to publicly kvetch about?
- therealdrag0 4y ago
  How do you know they haven’t watched it?
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Because they said so? > "Now after all this rant: I didn't watch rings of power, and I don't plan to, why soil a good memory and good mental mythos I have of that world?" > "I watched up till the intro credits of episode one. It seems... OK?" > "I watched the trailer and I didn't watch the show yet, but I if it follows the trend, I imagine what I will find. I don't know if I will watch it." > "I found the first episode very long drawn and boring. Wanted to leave a review but Amazon told me: "please watch till the end to leave a review". Not going to torture myself just to leave a review." > "I’ve only watched one episode, but that episode was not good." > "That begin said, I haven't watched any RoP, the "nothing" could be complete fluff because the story is too thin." > "I don't think I'll be watching this series at all based on what I've read in the comments here." > "zero sympathy here; Tolkien reader; not watching this media at all.. zero" > "I don’t known about others, but I really don’t want to watch this show now." Am I the only one that seems weird to? Like, watch it and have whatever opinion you feel! But when did not watch it and have a strong opinion become a valid option?
  - Corrado 4y ago
    Some of the reviews were posted before the episodes were even released.
- CleaveIt2Beaver 4y ago
  I've seen several memes presented to me by Facebook, since it's normally the kind of content and subject matter I'd consume, counseling people to not even "hate-watch" it. So there is some variety of blind opposition or boycot afoot, and shockingly, the comment sections very frequently come back around to color-blind casting.
OrvalWintermute 4y ago
> As a result, there's a not inconsiderable number of die hard fans who don't react well to disregarding canon as there is a rather insane amount of detail spelled out in the books. This sounds very similar to what happened with the fans of the well-known Wheel of Time series. Given the broad divergence from the canon, the future of the series is in doubt [1] [1] https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-backlash-controversy-books-seasons-risk/ https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-backlash-controversy-...
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  I don't understand why they even bothered trying to adapt the Wheel of Time. The values expressed in those books, particularly w.r.t. gender, were obviously going to clash hard with the present zeitgeist and necessitated butchering the story to bring it into compliance. Anybody could have seen that coming. They should have just written a new story. In no particular order: Conflict between men and women leads to ruination. Men need women and women need men, without the other they aren't complete. Men are naturally stronger than women, but women make up for it with teamwork. Powerful men get harems. Men frequently take multiple wives but the reverse is virtually unheard of. Slavery as a cultural difference to be respected. Good guys allying themselves with an empire built by the chattel slavery of women.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  Wheel of Time season 2 was confirmed before season 1 ended and season 3 was confirmed before any part of season 2 aired. Amazon is doubling down. Expect more of this sort of "we'll buy your favorite property and change it and there's nothing you can do about it". Nothing that is still protected by copyright is sacred, you just need a rich enough business to buy it to change it.
bowsamic 4y ago
But a lot of the people who are freaking out clearly haven’t read the books because the stuff they say is often incorrect
cygx 4y ago
Note that the canon is somewhat fluid: Tolkien changed his mind on various things (off-hand, I can think of the creation of the orcs, when the wizards first arrived in middle-earth and what exactly Balrogs look like).
- caskstrength 4y ago
  Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi
  - cygx 4y ago
    But 'Jupiter' has been dead for close to 50 years. While Tolkien was protective of his work and its integrity, I'm not entirely sure he would have wanted it to ossify entirely (as already quoted elsewhere: "I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many others only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama").

by blihp 4y ago

ethbr0 4y ago

This feels different though. (a) Most of the angry people haven't even watched (!) the few episodes (!!) that are out. (b) I'm not sure most of the outraged are Tolkien fans. It honestly feels more like dog piling / mob hysteria. When did we become consumers of visual media where "I don't like it, and I haven't and won't watch it" is a valid position to publicly kvetch about?

therealdrag0 4y ago
How do you know they haven’t watched it?
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Because they said so? > "Now after all this rant: I didn't watch rings of power, and I don't plan to, why soil a good memory and good mental mythos I have of that world?" > "I watched up till the intro credits of episode one. It seems... OK?" > "I watched the trailer and I didn't watch the show yet, but I if it follows the trend, I imagine what I will find. I don't know if I will watch it." > "I found the first episode very long drawn and boring. Wanted to leave a review but Amazon told me: "please watch till the end to leave a review". Not going to torture myself just to leave a review." > "I’ve only watched one episode, but that episode was not good." > "That begin said, I haven't watched any RoP, the "nothing" could be complete fluff because the story is too thin." > "I don't think I'll be watching this series at all based on what I've read in the comments here." > "zero sympathy here; Tolkien reader; not watching this media at all.. zero" > "I don’t known about others, but I really don’t want to watch this show now." Am I the only one that seems weird to? Like, watch it and have whatever opinion you feel! But when did not watch it and have a strong opinion become a valid option?
- Corrado 4y ago
  Some of the reviews were posted before the episodes were even released.
CleaveIt2Beaver 4y ago
I've seen several memes presented to me by Facebook, since it's normally the kind of content and subject matter I'd consume, counseling people to not even "hate-watch" it. So there is some variety of blind opposition or boycot afoot, and shockingly, the comment sections very frequently come back around to color-blind casting.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago

> As a result, there's a not inconsiderable number of die hard fans who don't react well to disregarding canon as there is a rather insane amount of detail spelled out in the books. This sounds very similar to what happened with the fans of the well-known Wheel of Time series. Given the broad divergence from the canon, the future of the series is in doubt [1] [1] https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-backlash-controversy-books-seasons-risk/ https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-backlash-controversy-...

MichaelCollins 4y ago
I don't understand why they even bothered trying to adapt the Wheel of Time. The values expressed in those books, particularly w.r.t. gender, were obviously going to clash hard with the present zeitgeist and necessitated butchering the story to bring it into compliance. Anybody could have seen that coming. They should have just written a new story. In no particular order: Conflict between men and women leads to ruination. Men need women and women need men, without the other they aren't complete. Men are naturally stronger than women, but women make up for it with teamwork. Powerful men get harems. Men frequently take multiple wives but the reverse is virtually unheard of. Slavery as a cultural difference to be respected. Good guys allying themselves with an empire built by the chattel slavery of women.
LegitShady 4y ago
Wheel of Time season 2 was confirmed before season 1 ended and season 3 was confirmed before any part of season 2 aired. Amazon is doubling down. Expect more of this sort of "we'll buy your favorite property and change it and there's nothing you can do about it". Nothing that is still protected by copyright is sacred, you just need a rich enough business to buy it to change it.

bowsamic 4y ago

But a lot of the people who are freaking out clearly haven’t read the books because the stuff they say is often incorrect

cygx 4y ago

Note that the canon is somewhat fluid: Tolkien changed his mind on various things (off-hand, I can think of the creation of the orcs, when the wizards first arrived in middle-earth and what exactly Balrogs look like).

caskstrength 4y ago
Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi
- cygx 4y ago
  But 'Jupiter' has been dead for close to 50 years. While Tolkien was protective of his work and its integrity, I'm not entirely sure he would have wanted it to ossify entirely (as already quoted elsewhere: "I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many others only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama").