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Sounds like the Streisand Effect in action. Any professional engineer knows the rules: pay your licence, you can call yourself a professional engineer. Don't

Sounds like the Streisand Effect in action. Any professional engineer knows the rules: pay your licence, you can call yourself a professional engineer. Don't pay, you're at risk if you continue as if nothing has changed. Get caught, you may get disciplined and/or fined. Repeatedly go out and advertise that you have a PE as a way of suggesting knowledge or trustworthiness via your business, you increase your exposure and risk. Part of your professional training pre-licensure specifically covers the roles of professional engineers in the media and the responsibilities carried. There's nothing controversial here other than the persecution complex Marohn appears to have developed. It's interesting that the article posted goes on about other cases, but fails to reference Marohn's own case (found here: https://mn.gov/aelslagid/disciplinaryactions/2022/40142.pdf https://mn.gov/aelslagid/disciplinaryactions/2022/40142.pdf). Interesting tidbits like how, at renewal, Marohn forgot to mention that he had been representing himself as an engineer while unlicensed seem relevant. His argument that "but I'm not offering engineering services" and therefore it didn't count is laughable -- he appears to either have no knowledge of what his professional licence actually obligates him to do, or simply feels the rules that apply to other professionals don't apply in his case. Frankly, he's lucky he got off with just the fine.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Clearly the guy is being harassed by people in power. Far more egregious infractions (e.g. 10 years in business without getting a licence) did NOT result in fines. He's not 'lucky', in fact curiously just the opposite. He's been singled out for punishment, for a paperwork violation. At no time did he not meet the requirements for being a PE, save a renewal fee. Nobody was at any time endangered, which is the line they are claiming he crossed. It's just a lie.
- ulrashida 4y ago
  Unfortunately you are making this up. Whatabout-ism, while relevant for improving the regulatory body's process, does not affect the merits of an individual case. It's akin to complaining at a traffic stop: "but you didn't ticket the guy in front of me!" I am a professional engineer who is involved in licensing in my own jurisdiction: license payment is a requirement for saying you have a license. A license is required to refer to yourself as a professional engineer. Full stop. On what basis are you suggesting otherwise?
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    That's silly. When a regulatory body lets some folks pass on renewal for decades, then hits up one guy with a big fine for being late 2 months what do you call it if not abuse of power? Sure its technically within their rights to fine folks - its right there in their charter. But the fact that they don't exercise this right for years then pick out this guy shows that something is up. Further, the licensing has f-all to do with whether a particular engineer is endangering public safety. That entirely depends on their training. The certification doesn't come first - it's simply a label so folks can tell who's competent. This guy had the certification for years; he has it now. There was no issue with public safety. Which is indeed reflected on the lax enforcement of renewal - normally just a late fee, which just makes sense.
    - ulrashida 4y ago
      "Further, the licensing has f-all to do with whether a particular engineer is endangering public safety." This is completely contrary to what every engineer is taught multiple times before they are licensed. Licensing is essential to the goal of preserving public safety as the profession is self-regulating. This lesson was learned at the cost of human life and I'm not sure what has given the impression that it's some administrative convenience. Inescapably, in applying for a license you confirm that you understand the role of the licensing body and the rules the license is granted under. Marohn got fined because someone registered a complaint that he "held himself out as a professional engineer while he was not licensed" and "falsely represented on his reapplication for licensure that he had not done so". Quite plainly, this isn't some injustice: this is literally the system working as intended -- complaint, assessment, and resolution. As to your point that "they don't exercise this right for years" you are incorrect: about a dozen fines have been assigned in 2022 alone. Do you have experience with professional licensing that suggests the above is inappropriate?
      - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        This is hopeless. The point I've made repeatedly is, the education is what makes an engineer competent. Not the state of their license. The guy is clearly what was said: not licenced (briefly). He corrected that; they even charged a late fee recognizing he was still licensed but late in paying. The article lists several egregious cases that did not result in a fine. Are those dozen fines in 2022 about people who's fees lapsed? If not, then we're right back where we started: this guy is getting an unreasonable fine for a paperwork issue. Not for endangering the public. Which is the only point I'm making despite the army of strawmen being marshalled.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

Clearly the guy is being harassed by people in power. Far more egregious infractions (e.g. 10 years in business without getting a licence) did NOT result in fines. He's not 'lucky', in fact curiously just the opposite. He's been singled out for punishment, for a paperwork violation. At no time did he not meet the requirements for being a PE, save a renewal fee. Nobody was at any time endangered, which is the line they are claiming he crossed. It's just a lie.

ulrashida 4y ago
Unfortunately you are making this up. Whatabout-ism, while relevant for improving the regulatory body's process, does not affect the merits of an individual case. It's akin to complaining at a traffic stop: "but you didn't ticket the guy in front of me!" I am a professional engineer who is involved in licensing in my own jurisdiction: license payment is a requirement for saying you have a license. A license is required to refer to yourself as a professional engineer. Full stop. On what basis are you suggesting otherwise?
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  That's silly. When a regulatory body lets some folks pass on renewal for decades, then hits up one guy with a big fine for being late 2 months what do you call it if not abuse of power? Sure its technically within their rights to fine folks - its right there in their charter. But the fact that they don't exercise this right for years then pick out this guy shows that something is up. Further, the licensing has f-all to do with whether a particular engineer is endangering public safety. That entirely depends on their training. The certification doesn't come first - it's simply a label so folks can tell who's competent. This guy had the certification for years; he has it now. There was no issue with public safety. Which is indeed reflected on the lax enforcement of renewal - normally just a late fee, which just makes sense.
  - ulrashida 4y ago
    "Further, the licensing has f-all to do with whether a particular engineer is endangering public safety." This is completely contrary to what every engineer is taught multiple times before they are licensed. Licensing is essential to the goal of preserving public safety as the profession is self-regulating. This lesson was learned at the cost of human life and I'm not sure what has given the impression that it's some administrative convenience. Inescapably, in applying for a license you confirm that you understand the role of the licensing body and the rules the license is granted under. Marohn got fined because someone registered a complaint that he "held himself out as a professional engineer while he was not licensed" and "falsely represented on his reapplication for licensure that he had not done so". Quite plainly, this isn't some injustice: this is literally the system working as intended -- complaint, assessment, and resolution. As to your point that "they don't exercise this right for years" you are incorrect: about a dozen fines have been assigned in 2022 alone. Do you have experience with professional licensing that suggests the above is inappropriate?
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      This is hopeless. The point I've made repeatedly is, the education is what makes an engineer competent. Not the state of their license. The guy is clearly what was said: not licenced (briefly). He corrected that; they even charged a late fee recognizing he was still licensed but late in paying. The article lists several egregious cases that did not result in a fine. Are those dozen fines in 2022 about people who's fees lapsed? If not, then we're right back where we started: this guy is getting an unreasonable fine for a paperwork issue. Not for endangering the public. Which is the only point I'm making despite the army of strawmen being marshalled.