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The right way is to move away from gas and invest in renewables.
by charlesdm 4y ago
The right way is to move away from gas and invest in renewables.
- whoooooo123 4y agoHow will renewables power Europe when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing?
- jl6 4y agoFor renewables, read renewables+storage.
- pjc50 4y agoHow will gas power Europe when the Russians shut off the gas? If you want to go nuclear: OK, sure, so what do we use for power in the decade before the first plant comes online?
- almost_usual 4y agoWell Europe is already invested in LNG. I imagine there will be more LNG terminals being built despite it not being great for the environment. Ex: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/germany-announces-new-lng-facility-in-move-away-from-russian-energy/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/germany-announces-new-...
- jules 4y agoThe advantage of nuclear is that it will work almost certainly, albeit possibly at a high cost. We should continue to invest into wind and solar where that makes economic sense. On the off chance that a magic energy storage technology comes along we can then phase out nuclear again. However, betting the future of an entire continent on the coming into existence of such a technology is wildly irresponsible.
- ben_w 4y agoNone of the advantages of nuclear answer pjc50's question. > coming into existence of such a technology The tech already exists in multiple forms, the question is the logistics of expanding the deployment of that tech. The conclusion remains valid, betting on that is irresponsible, but the energy storage isn't magic.
- forgotusername6 4y agoEurope is big enough that the wind is always blowing somewhere
- Krssst 4y agoRelying on this seems to imply strongly overbuilding for the worst case. Meaning all regions should have enough wind power capacity to compensate for the occasional lack of wind everywhere else.
- jules 4y agoThat is not true. Wind output is highly correlated across the continent. Days in which wind output is very low happen regularly. In fact, every couple of years there is an entire week like that.
- dukeofdoom 4y agoGermany built out their electrical grid with twice the Solar capacity it needs to power the country. Problem is it achieves that kind of sun a few days a year. Germany is not California. Sorry. Not smart. It's a disastrous policy that will kill people.
- ben_w 4y ago> Germany built out their electrical grid with twice the Solar capacity it needs to power the country. Not so. Germany used 568.8 TW⋅h of electricity in 2021[0], or 64.9 GW on average. Even the nameplate capacity of PV is 58.7 GW, so less than use rather than double it, but the actual capacity factor — which is included in any reasonable definition of the capacity needed to power a country — brings it down to just under 10% of demand. All renewables together are just under half of demand right now.
- throwtheacctawy 4y ago
- missedthecue 4y agoThe problem for Europe right now is that wind turbines and solar panels don't product natural gas. In Germany for instance, only 25% of gas usage is accounted for by electricity production.
- almost_usual 4y agoEurope isn’t moving from gas anytime soon with new investments in LNG. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/germany-announces-new-lng-facility-in-move-away-from-russian-energy/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/germany-announces-new-...
- zosima 4y agoGas is a precondition for renewables. Without gas there's no reliable energy source, that can be turned on and off at will. That is renewables without gas can not keep the lights on, when the sun's out and there's no wind. (Oil, Coal and Nuclear takes longer to turn on and off, and so will not be able to respond to the sudden changes in electricity production, brought on by renewables.) It's very likely that Russia has been supporting green parties across Europe for three major actions: 1. Protesting shale and fracking: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-secretly-working-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-s... 2. Scaling up sun and wind power. 3. Shutting down nuclear power plants I can't find sources for number 2. and 3 now. But do remember having seen support from Russia and Gazprom for parties promoting these actions.
- sebazzz 4y agoWhy can't nuclear not be turned on and off at will? I understand you can't just fire up and down a reactor, but you can control the steam flow to the generator, and let that redirect directly to the cooling tower at will? The real problem appears to be buffer capacity.
- tomatocracy 4y agoTurning on and off quickly is difficult and/or expensive for all of CCGT/OCGT gas, coal and nuclear. Turning up/down is much less so however, and in reality that's often how it works.