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Companies have started prohibiting mass arbitration in their ToS in response. Edit 1: Since people requested an example, here's Adobe's: > The Notice of Claim
by dataflow 4y ago
Companies have started prohibiting mass arbitration in their ToS in response.
Edit 1: Since people requested an example, here's Adobe's:
> The Notice of Claim must provide Adobe with fair notice of your identity, a description of the nature and basis of your Claim, and the relief you are seeking, including the specific amount of any monetary relief you are seeking, and cannot be combined with a Notice of Claim for other individuals.
Edit 2: Here's Venmo's, which is more comprehensive (https://venmo.com/legal/us-user-agreement/ https://venmo.com/legal/us-user-agreement/):
> You and PayPal agree that each of us may bring claims against the other only on an individual basis and not as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class or representative action or proceeding. Unless both you and PayPal agree otherwise, the arbitrator may not consolidate or join more than one person's or party's claims and may not otherwise preside over any form of a consolidated, representative or class proceeding. Also, the arbitrator may award relief (including monetary, injunctive and declaratory relief) only in favor of the individual party seeking relief and only to the extent necessary to provide relief necessitated by that party's individual claim(s). Any relief awarded cannot affect other PayPal or Venmo customers.
- AlexandrB 4y agoHow do you prohibit something like that? "Disputes are solved through arbitration, unless a bunch of other people want to do it too, then..."?
- mysterydip 4y agoreminds me of the "not responsible for damages" some dump trucks have written on the back
- bluGill 4y agoLegally they are sometimes responsible anyway, but by warning they can get out of some because you shouldn't have been where there damage happened and were warned. If a truck passes you and something from it hits you they are liable, but.if you are following too close that is your own fault and the warning can help make that clear.
- bobthepanda 4y agoToS contain all sorts of things not actually enforceable, the issue is whether or not you want to spend the money on a lawyer to get through those speed bumps too.
- tintor 4y agoI am curious. Do you have an example of such ToS?
- vorpalhex 4y agoThat reads like just the notice of claim itself. You can of course bulk generate individual claims.
- dataflow 4y agoSure, maybe with Adobe's. See update—I added Venmo's, which goes beyond that.
- armchairhacker 4y agoIs there anything stopping 1 lawyer from representing 1000 clients with more or less the same copy-pasted arguments?
- dataflow 4y agoIf he's willing to go through 1000 individual proceedings, probably not? I'm not sure how long proceedings take, but I imagine that would take a good chunk of the lawyer's life (1000 one-week proceedings = 20 years).
- hedora 4y agoSend 1000 copies of the same letter to the arbitration firm. When BigCo tries to get you to agree to combine the claims, agree to do so if and only if they pay out $1M to cover the legal expenses they are avoiding.
- cmeacham98 4y agoDon't these both benefit mass arbitration? The point, as I understand it, is to have a lot of people submit claims about an issue so the company is forced to pay for them all. If, instead, claims could be combined then Adobe/PayPal/whoever could combine them all and presumably avoid paying to arbitrate each individually.
- dataflow 4y ago> Don't these both benefit mass arbitration? Well, I think it's safe to assume they don't, given companies started adding these terms after mass arbitration became popular. As to how/why they don't, I'm not sure. But if I had to take a guess, I imagine motivations could include: (a) clogging the arbitration system to slow claims down to a crawl (since they can't be handled en masse), (b) making it difficult for every individual to demonstrate damages (since many people will not be able to prove actual harm), (c) forcing every individual to contribute significant time and effort into the process (which will not be worth it for many people, and practically impossible for many others).
- buscoquadnary 4y ago"It's better than legal we're using the law to keep justice away" - The PHB