9 ms·

This is not a case of "good ideas" vs "better ideas", this is a case of DDoS: "inconvenient ideas and IP Bandwidth" vs "censorship and better IP bandwidth"

kelseyfrog 4y ago
It's pretty contingent on ideas though. You don't see thecheesecakefactory.com getting blasted for exactly this reason.
- cowtools 4y ago
  The cheesecake factory has no meaningful ideological motivations, unless you include the advancement of poor dieting amongst Americans, which I suppose could be considered to be anti-american in a sense. Additionally, it's a retail store. I can't imagine they would lose a lot of business if their website was down. Still, they could just as easily fall victim to a DDoS racketeering scheme I suppose. If somehow someone objected to cheesecake factory's practices (let's say they're a vegan or they disapproved of cheesecake factory's health practices or something), then it would be disproportionately easy for the cheesecake factory to conduct a DDoS attack on the protester's website than vice-versa. So the idea that we should support DDoS as some form of free speech is obviously pro-corporatist in my perspective, because it empowers those with more financial and bureaucratic control over the internet.
- fluoridation 4y ago
  So let's see, if I don't like this comment of yours and I find out where you live and go and shoot you in the face so you can't make such comments again, that's also competition in the marketplace of ideas, right? It's my idea to shoot you in the face against your idea of making comments I don't like.
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    You're equating a website going offline to shooting me in the face? No, that's not a competition of ideas. It's murder. Does that really need to be spelled out for you?
    - fluoridation 4y ago
      Congratulations, you got the analogy. Both me shooting you in the face and a mob agreeing to perform a DDoS against a web server are both measures of force. "I don't like what you're saying, so I'm going to shoot you in the face so you stop." "I don't like the content your web server is serving, so I'm going to DDoS it so it stops." The DDoS is not an idea in the same way that a bullet isn't one. Therefore no, this is not "the marketplace of ideas in action".
      - kelseyfrog 4y ago
        Now explain how not all measures of force are equal. Or are you one of those people who thinks cops should shoot people for traffic violations?
        fluoridation 4y ago
        Only after you explain in what way it is relevant with regards to the point that DDoSing a server is not part of the marketplace of ideas.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        I categorically privilege human life over website accessibility. Do people generally not do this?
        fluoridation 4y ago
        Great. But, that's not what I asked.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        Sending a packet is free speech. Being prevented from sending a packet is censorship. It's pretty simple. Not really sure why we needed to take a detour into shooting people, but here we are.
anigbrowl 4y ago
It's just that some people are really interested in KF and hit f5 frequently to load more KF content. Problem?

kelseyfrog 4y ago

It's pretty contingent on ideas though. You don't see thecheesecakefactory.com getting blasted for exactly this reason.

cowtools 4y ago
The cheesecake factory has no meaningful ideological motivations, unless you include the advancement of poor dieting amongst Americans, which I suppose could be considered to be anti-american in a sense. Additionally, it's a retail store. I can't imagine they would lose a lot of business if their website was down. Still, they could just as easily fall victim to a DDoS racketeering scheme I suppose. If somehow someone objected to cheesecake factory's practices (let's say they're a vegan or they disapproved of cheesecake factory's health practices or something), then it would be disproportionately easy for the cheesecake factory to conduct a DDoS attack on the protester's website than vice-versa. So the idea that we should support DDoS as some form of free speech is obviously pro-corporatist in my perspective, because it empowers those with more financial and bureaucratic control over the internet.
fluoridation 4y ago
So let's see, if I don't like this comment of yours and I find out where you live and go and shoot you in the face so you can't make such comments again, that's also competition in the marketplace of ideas, right? It's my idea to shoot you in the face against your idea of making comments I don't like.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  You're equating a website going offline to shooting me in the face? No, that's not a competition of ideas. It's murder. Does that really need to be spelled out for you?
  - fluoridation 4y ago
    Congratulations, you got the analogy. Both me shooting you in the face and a mob agreeing to perform a DDoS against a web server are both measures of force. "I don't like what you're saying, so I'm going to shoot you in the face so you stop." "I don't like the content your web server is serving, so I'm going to DDoS it so it stops." The DDoS is not an idea in the same way that a bullet isn't one. Therefore no, this is not "the marketplace of ideas in action".
    - kelseyfrog 4y ago
      Now explain how not all measures of force are equal. Or are you one of those people who thinks cops should shoot people for traffic violations?
      - fluoridation 4y ago
        Only after you explain in what way it is relevant with regards to the point that DDoSing a server is not part of the marketplace of ideas.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        I categorically privilege human life over website accessibility. Do people generally not do this?
        fluoridation 4y ago
        Great. But, that's not what I asked.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        Sending a packet is free speech. Being prevented from sending a packet is censorship. It's pretty simple. Not really sure why we needed to take a detour into shooting people, but here we are.

anigbrowl 4y ago

It's just that some people are really interested in KF and hit f5 frequently to load more KF content. Problem?