3 ms·

> Dense cities have the potential to be inhumane and not worth living in for various health (e.g. particulates, aerosols, nitrogen, disease) Sure they have the

> Dense cities have the potential to be inhumane and not worth living in for various health (e.g. particulates, aerosols, nitrogen, disease) Sure they have the potential for this, but only if we don’t take these problems into account and mitigate them. Take particulates for example (and noise, which you didn’t mention but is also an issue); a lot is from cars. If we assume that every city resident will have and frequently use a car, then sure that becomes an issue. But if we provide viable alternatives to driving and make them as or more convenient than driving, much less of an issue.

xor99 4y ago
True, but the potential must be possible given existing resources and political systems and not inhuman or utopian. EVs are possible and not utopian for the most part and so you are right. Although the energy crisis will heavily impact manufacture of EVs. Another point: fertility drops massively in cities and this is an environmental concern as you need labour to transition industries at scale (e.g. nuclear plants, solar, wind, biomanufacture). Low birth rate dense cities are a recipe for disaster in terms of sufficient labour for a green transition. The list of issues with the authors "I'm a misunderstood future hero" viewpoint goes on and on imo.
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  Low-traffic neighborhoods, grassy tram tracks for sound dampening, protected bike lanes, etc are also possible and not utopian. We do ourselves a disservice if we think about them as some unattainable ideal. They exist, right now.
  - BigRedDog1669 4y ago
    Yes, they exist, but are only implemented in very small pockets of neighborhoods in cities across the US and there is usually huge hurdles in expanding them. They seem like window dressing in wealthy neighborhoods rather than as solutions being expanded citywide.
    - xor99 4y ago
      Exactly.. and believing that this will distribute evenly across the population magically and solve the issues relating to dense and unhealthy post-climate cities is the kernel of moderate climate-utopic thinking. Sure these interventions exist but so do Ferraris. They may or may not scale.
      - ryukafalz 4y ago
        > and believing that this will distribute evenly across the population magically I don’t expect this will happen magically. I expect it will happen through advocacy and legislation.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - ryukafalz 4y ago
      The US is not a particularly good role model here. Look to Western Europe for better examples.

xor99 4y ago

True, but the potential must be possible given existing resources and political systems and not inhuman or utopian. EVs are possible and not utopian for the most part and so you are right. Although the energy crisis will heavily impact manufacture of EVs. Another point: fertility drops massively in cities and this is an environmental concern as you need labour to transition industries at scale (e.g. nuclear plants, solar, wind, biomanufacture). Low birth rate dense cities are a recipe for disaster in terms of sufficient labour for a green transition. The list of issues with the authors "I'm a misunderstood future hero" viewpoint goes on and on imo.

ryukafalz 4y ago
Low-traffic neighborhoods, grassy tram tracks for sound dampening, protected bike lanes, etc are also possible and not utopian. We do ourselves a disservice if we think about them as some unattainable ideal. They exist, right now.
- BigRedDog1669 4y ago
  Yes, they exist, but are only implemented in very small pockets of neighborhoods in cities across the US and there is usually huge hurdles in expanding them. They seem like window dressing in wealthy neighborhoods rather than as solutions being expanded citywide.
  - xor99 4y ago
    Exactly.. and believing that this will distribute evenly across the population magically and solve the issues relating to dense and unhealthy post-climate cities is the kernel of moderate climate-utopic thinking. Sure these interventions exist but so do Ferraris. They may or may not scale.
    - ryukafalz 4y ago
      > and believing that this will distribute evenly across the population magically I don’t expect this will happen magically. I expect it will happen through advocacy and legislation.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    The US is not a particularly good role model here. Look to Western Europe for better examples.