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You'd be surprised to know that there are some other stuff holding proteins that's not meat. Like fish or chickpeas, or lentils, or beans, or seeds, or buts, or

You'd be surprised to know that there are some other stuff holding proteins that's not meat. Like fish or chickpeas, or lentils, or beans, or seeds, or buts, or broccoli...

gruez 4y ago
Right, but are people likely to switch to those when they find out that red meat is bad? Or are they more likely to switch to pork/chicken? My previous comment doesn't say those protein sources don't exist, only that people are unlikely to switch to them.
Bancakes 4y ago
Yes and you only need two dishes of it to get a chicken breast's worth.
- netmonk 4y ago
  The main issue here is the bioavailability of those proteins when digesting. red meat is 100% digested and bioavailable for all amino acid that are required for life. Bio availability of protein in plant is far lower, and doesn’t cover the full amino-acid profile. But well, I worship Darwin and let the vegans dying from malnutrition. Latest story is that mother getting life sentence after killing her baby with vegan diet.
  - latexr 4y ago
    > I worship Darwin and let the vegans dying from malnutrition. Please don’t be snarky.¹ Known athletes trivially disprove that claim.² ³ ¹ https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ² https://www.mensjournal.com/sports/nate-diaz-and-other-vegan-ufc-fighters-w199323/ https://www.mensjournal.com/sports/nate-diaz-and-other-vegan... ³ https://www.livekindly.com/vegan-athletes-swear-by-plants/ https://www.livekindly.com/vegan-athletes-swear-by-plants/
    - kcplate 4y ago
      If it works for them, so be it. The one thing that this quite obvious with diet and nutrition is that there is no “one size fits all” diet for everyone.
    - netmonk 4y ago
      You didn’t let them live enough long. Also please provide the complémentation list ( all the chemical they need to add into their daily diet to sustain this narrative). No need to cherry pick far right elements of the bell curve. For centuries diet poor in meat is associated with bad health, shorter life and multiple specific diseases. This topic is widely reported on old littérature from 17th 18th and 19th centuries. 0 meat diet is malnutrition whatever the artifice you use to hide it.
      - latexr 4y ago
        > You didn’t let them live enough long. Which cuts both ways. Neither of us know when they will die. > No need to cherry pick far right elements of the bell curve. Your comment specifically mentioned Darwin and dying. Most people will take that as quip on the “survival of the fittest” phrase, so I showed you examples of the fittest. > all the chemical they need to add into their daily diet Even if that were true, it does not support your point. Your claim was of malnutrition, you’re now shifting the goalpost to a value judgement on how that nutrition is ingested. All food is made up of chemical substances¹. > This topic is widely reported on old littérature from 17th 18th and 19th centuries. After asking for concrete data, your rebuttal is to offer none? I know we’re amidst a replication crisis², but a general hand wave to unspecified publications which don’t take into account the last century of science doesn’t advance the conversation. ¹ https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/chemicals-food https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/chemicals-food ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
ok123456 4y ago
All the ones you listed have an incomplete amino acid profile, and are not sufficient for optimal long term health.
- mrob 4y ago
  Fortunately, it is possible to eat more than one foodstuff. Grains and beans is the classic combo. Grains are lacking in lysine, and beans are lacking in methionine, but together they make a complete protein. You don't even need to eat them in the same meal.
  - ok123456 4y ago
    Yes, it's possible to mix and match at get close to a complete profile. But, this requires more accountability than people are willing to do with their own diets. People have a hard enough time not eating themselves into hyper-obesity, and now they have to factor in amino profiles verses just eating some red meat from time to time. On the whole, I've met more unhealthy vegans and vegetarians than healthy ones.
    - srveale 4y ago
      > On the whole, I've met more unhealthy vegans and vegetarians than healthy ones. How do you know the diet of everyone you meet? How are you assessing the health of your acquaintances? > People have a hard enough time Are things not worth doing because they are difficult? Exercising is pretty inconvenient - doesn't mean we should give up on it.
      - ok123456 4y ago
        srveale 4y ago
        > Vegans always make sure to tell you. How do you know this? Hint, you can't. And you didn't answer how you are assessing people's health. > Yes people should be accountable to themselves for their diet So we are in agreement
trident5000 4y ago
Protein is not all you get from meat. If you want to replace meat, fine. But dont act like its just a protein swap. For instance you're not getting creatine and all the amino acids from beans amongst other nutrition. I also dont really understand the full appeal as mono-cropping has devastated forests and animal species. And those harvesting machines kill many animals in the fields.
- sweetheart 4y ago
  This is like a bingo card of bad arguments
  - trident5000 4y ago
    And yet you have nothing of substance to say to retort anything mentioned
    - sweetheart 4y ago
      https://animalwrites.blog/ddosing-in-arguments/ https://animalwrites.blog/ddosing-in-arguments/
  - kcplate 4y ago
    Or good arguments depending on your point of view.
- kashunstva 4y ago
  How does vegetarianism or veganism promote monoculture? I associate mono-cropping with production of animal feed and hyper-processed human feed, not with growing crops for vegans.
  - trident5000 4y ago
    Do you think the food you eat is not grown in the ground or something?

You'd be surprised to know that there are some other stuff holding proteins that's not meat. Like fish or chickpeas, or lentils, or beans, or seeds, or buts, or broccoli...

gruez 4y ago

Right, but are people likely to switch to those when they find out that red meat is bad? Or are they more likely to switch to pork/chicken? My previous comment doesn't say those protein sources don't exist, only that people are unlikely to switch to them.

Bancakes 4y ago

Yes and you only need two dishes of it to get a chicken breast's worth.

netmonk 4y ago
The main issue here is the bioavailability of those proteins when digesting. red meat is 100% digested and bioavailable for all amino acid that are required for life. Bio availability of protein in plant is far lower, and doesn’t cover the full amino-acid profile. But well, I worship Darwin and let the vegans dying from malnutrition. Latest story is that mother getting life sentence after killing her baby with vegan diet.
- latexr 4y ago
  > I worship Darwin and let the vegans dying from malnutrition. Please don’t be snarky.¹ Known athletes trivially disprove that claim.² ³ ¹ https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ² https://www.mensjournal.com/sports/nate-diaz-and-other-vegan-ufc-fighters-w199323/ https://www.mensjournal.com/sports/nate-diaz-and-other-vegan... ³ https://www.livekindly.com/vegan-athletes-swear-by-plants/ https://www.livekindly.com/vegan-athletes-swear-by-plants/
  - kcplate 4y ago
    If it works for them, so be it. The one thing that this quite obvious with diet and nutrition is that there is no “one size fits all” diet for everyone.
  - netmonk 4y ago
    You didn’t let them live enough long. Also please provide the complémentation list ( all the chemical they need to add into their daily diet to sustain this narrative). No need to cherry pick far right elements of the bell curve. For centuries diet poor in meat is associated with bad health, shorter life and multiple specific diseases. This topic is widely reported on old littérature from 17th 18th and 19th centuries. 0 meat diet is malnutrition whatever the artifice you use to hide it.
    - latexr 4y ago
      > You didn’t let them live enough long. Which cuts both ways. Neither of us know when they will die. > No need to cherry pick far right elements of the bell curve. Your comment specifically mentioned Darwin and dying. Most people will take that as quip on the “survival of the fittest” phrase, so I showed you examples of the fittest. > all the chemical they need to add into their daily diet Even if that were true, it does not support your point. Your claim was of malnutrition, you’re now shifting the goalpost to a value judgement on how that nutrition is ingested. All food is made up of chemical substances¹. > This topic is widely reported on old littérature from 17th 18th and 19th centuries. After asking for concrete data, your rebuttal is to offer none? I know we’re amidst a replication crisis², but a general hand wave to unspecified publications which don’t take into account the last century of science doesn’t advance the conversation. ¹ https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/chemicals-food https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/chemicals-food ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

ok123456 4y ago

All the ones you listed have an incomplete amino acid profile, and are not sufficient for optimal long term health.

mrob 4y ago
Fortunately, it is possible to eat more than one foodstuff. Grains and beans is the classic combo. Grains are lacking in lysine, and beans are lacking in methionine, but together they make a complete protein. You don't even need to eat them in the same meal.
- ok123456 4y ago
  Yes, it's possible to mix and match at get close to a complete profile. But, this requires more accountability than people are willing to do with their own diets. People have a hard enough time not eating themselves into hyper-obesity, and now they have to factor in amino profiles verses just eating some red meat from time to time. On the whole, I've met more unhealthy vegans and vegetarians than healthy ones.
  - srveale 4y ago
    > On the whole, I've met more unhealthy vegans and vegetarians than healthy ones. How do you know the diet of everyone you meet? How are you assessing the health of your acquaintances? > People have a hard enough time Are things not worth doing because they are difficult? Exercising is pretty inconvenient - doesn't mean we should give up on it.
    - ok123456 4y ago
      - srveale 4y ago
        > Vegans always make sure to tell you. How do you know this? Hint, you can't. And you didn't answer how you are assessing people's health. > Yes people should be accountable to themselves for their diet So we are in agreement

trident5000 4y ago

Protein is not all you get from meat. If you want to replace meat, fine. But dont act like its just a protein swap. For instance you're not getting creatine and all the amino acids from beans amongst other nutrition. I also dont really understand the full appeal as mono-cropping has devastated forests and animal species. And those harvesting machines kill many animals in the fields.

sweetheart 4y ago
This is like a bingo card of bad arguments
- trident5000 4y ago
  And yet you have nothing of substance to say to retort anything mentioned
  - sweetheart 4y ago
    https://animalwrites.blog/ddosing-in-arguments/ https://animalwrites.blog/ddosing-in-arguments/
- kcplate 4y ago
  Or good arguments depending on your point of view.
kashunstva 4y ago
How does vegetarianism or veganism promote monoculture? I associate mono-cropping with production of animal feed and hyper-processed human feed, not with growing crops for vegans.
- trident5000 4y ago
  Do you think the food you eat is not grown in the ground or something?