4 ms·

How on earth do you read this article, and then come to the conclusion that the answer is to disable anti-stalking mechanisms (which apple, due to using the UWB

How on earth do you read this article, and then come to the conclusion that the answer is to disable anti-stalking mechanisms (which apple, due to using the UWB and their own protocol has vastly better ones) then your own product? This is the necessary trade off. Long time user of Tiles, and then later airtags - I travel a lot, and I have a tendency to leave my bags, so for me they save me a lot of money. My dog wears one. My kids and wife are bugged constantly with alerts that a unknown device is with them (with my name on it), but that's acceptable because somewhere a jealous ex-partner is using this for ill, or someone is trying to isolate someone for a crime. This is the perception problem. Apple introducing anti-stalker controls with the Airtag's didn't introduce a new problem - it revealed one that was already there.

MontyCarloHall 4y ago
Because theft protection is an extremely compelling use case of trackers. Unfortunately, features that make a compelling anti-theft device (concealability, secrecy) are diametrically opposed to features that make it hard to abuse for stalking purposes. It would be a killer app to somehow have the best of both worlds. I agree that robust authentication is one way to go about this. Perhaps a tracker could have a “stolen” mode, that when enabled disables anti-stalking features but also automatically notifies the police with the identity of the tracker’s owner.
- ghaff 4y ago
  >Because theft protection is an extremely compelling use case of trackers. Is it really? In many places, the police won't do anything. Are you going to track down and confront the thieves who stole your bike?
  - mwint 4y ago
    Pro tip: the cops will help you if you call them and say “hey, I’m outside (address) and I can see my stolen bike, I’m going to go retrieve my property, let me know if you want to help. Also I’m armed.” They’ll help.
    - rsync 4y ago
      This is terrible advice - and it is also incorrect. Police will respond, most assuredly, if you declare this intention, but you will be at best a complicating factor and at worst an additional deadly threat. Finally, if it was all a ruse you could find yourself in serious legal jeopardy if any violent - or deadly - outcomes ensue.
      - mwint 4y ago
        In free states, it’s common and not a big deal to tell dispatchers & police that you’re armed. Usually the cops will just ask where your weapon is, then say “cool, don’t shoot me and I won’t shoot you”. Not a big deal. They’re generally not concerned about people who voluntarily surrender their element of surprise.
        rsync 4y ago
        The world doesn’t always play out perfectly the way you’ve imagined it - even in “free states”. You’re rolling the dice with that behavior and I hope you never come up snake eyes.
        ghaff 4y ago
        Yep. Call the police and tell them you're about to create a potentially deadly situation over some property you claim to own. What could possibly go wrong?
  - MontyCarloHall 4y ago
    >In many places, the police won't do anything Calling the police would be more to deter stalking than to help with theft recovery. Knowing that the police will automatically be notified if the tracker gets set to stealth mode would be enough to deter many stalkers. >Are you going to track down and confront the thieves who stole your bike? I wouldn’t confront thieves but I certainly would track down where the bike gets ridden and take it back when it’s somewhere (semi) public. Years ago, a friend’s bike got stolen and by sheer luck we saw it a couple weeks later locked to a bike rack. We got some bolt cutters and took it.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    Yes. I’ve done this before, with a bicycle specifically. Found a stolen bike, and chased the thief until the cops took over. They showed up FAST, multiple units with lights and sirens. They treat it as an active crime if you know where the goods are rather than an investigation.
  - windexh8er 4y ago
    There are people who have "stuff" that's not always with them, stored elsewhere, used infrequently, etc. I've got AirTags on these things just so I have something that can easily identify where they've been moved if they happen to be. So, yes - I'd use the tags location to track the item because the items wouldn't be easy to hide. And as others have said if you've located your stolen property the police will respond during an active situation. I use AirTags and my main phone is not Apple. So if Tile comes out with a more targeted approach for this "stuff" of mine I'd be willing to drop AirTags because of the annoying beeping when "lost" and other issues the walled garden creates.
  - stephen_g 4y ago
    Knowing exactly where something is seems like the only thing that will make the police do anything more than take a couple of prints for minor theft (at least around here).

MontyCarloHall 4y ago

Because theft protection is an extremely compelling use case of trackers. Unfortunately, features that make a compelling anti-theft device (concealability, secrecy) are diametrically opposed to features that make it hard to abuse for stalking purposes. It would be a killer app to somehow have the best of both worlds. I agree that robust authentication is one way to go about this. Perhaps a tracker could have a “stolen” mode, that when enabled disables anti-stalking features but also automatically notifies the police with the identity of the tracker’s owner.

ghaff 4y ago
>Because theft protection is an extremely compelling use case of trackers. Is it really? In many places, the police won't do anything. Are you going to track down and confront the thieves who stole your bike?
- mwint 4y ago
  Pro tip: the cops will help you if you call them and say “hey, I’m outside (address) and I can see my stolen bike, I’m going to go retrieve my property, let me know if you want to help. Also I’m armed.” They’ll help.
  - rsync 4y ago
    This is terrible advice - and it is also incorrect. Police will respond, most assuredly, if you declare this intention, but you will be at best a complicating factor and at worst an additional deadly threat. Finally, if it was all a ruse you could find yourself in serious legal jeopardy if any violent - or deadly - outcomes ensue.
    - mwint 4y ago
      In free states, it’s common and not a big deal to tell dispatchers & police that you’re armed. Usually the cops will just ask where your weapon is, then say “cool, don’t shoot me and I won’t shoot you”. Not a big deal. They’re generally not concerned about people who voluntarily surrender their element of surprise.
      - rsync 4y ago
        The world doesn’t always play out perfectly the way you’ve imagined it - even in “free states”. You’re rolling the dice with that behavior and I hope you never come up snake eyes.
        ghaff 4y ago
        Yep. Call the police and tell them you're about to create a potentially deadly situation over some property you claim to own. What could possibly go wrong?
- MontyCarloHall 4y ago
  >In many places, the police won't do anything Calling the police would be more to deter stalking than to help with theft recovery. Knowing that the police will automatically be notified if the tracker gets set to stealth mode would be enough to deter many stalkers. >Are you going to track down and confront the thieves who stole your bike? I wouldn’t confront thieves but I certainly would track down where the bike gets ridden and take it back when it’s somewhere (semi) public. Years ago, a friend’s bike got stolen and by sheer luck we saw it a couple weeks later locked to a bike rack. We got some bolt cutters and took it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Yes. I’ve done this before, with a bicycle specifically. Found a stolen bike, and chased the thief until the cops took over. They showed up FAST, multiple units with lights and sirens. They treat it as an active crime if you know where the goods are rather than an investigation.
- windexh8er 4y ago
  There are people who have "stuff" that's not always with them, stored elsewhere, used infrequently, etc. I've got AirTags on these things just so I have something that can easily identify where they've been moved if they happen to be. So, yes - I'd use the tags location to track the item because the items wouldn't be easy to hide. And as others have said if you've located your stolen property the police will respond during an active situation. I use AirTags and my main phone is not Apple. So if Tile comes out with a more targeted approach for this "stuff" of mine I'd be willing to drop AirTags because of the annoying beeping when "lost" and other issues the walled garden creates.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  Knowing exactly where something is seems like the only thing that will make the police do anything more than take a couple of prints for minor theft (at least around here).