6 ms·

but sbcl is far more common than those two. its also free, unlike those two. i think this is ok as long as its stated cleary (and it is)

pjmlp 4y ago
And so the knowledge of a poor development experience for Common Lisp keeps spreading.
- abrax3141 4y ago
  Who said poor development environment. Emacs is a terrific lisp editor and straight sbcl (or any real lisp) is a better dev env than almost any other straight pl env.
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    i think you mean sbcl+emacs+slime/sly. straight sbcl is pretty limited
    - abrax3141 4y ago
      To be clear, slime isn’t necessary.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Compared to how Lisp Machines used to like, yes it is poorer. Commercial CL environments are the surviving ones that still offer a similar experience.
    - abrax3141 4y ago
      Yeah, but that’s just complaining that just because we used to have flying cars we still should. We decided as a society to give up on flying cars. They’re gone. Move on with your (our) boring 2D lives.
      - ryukafalz 4y ago
        I don’t think it’s fair to say that we’ve given up on Lisp machines because we chose to do so. Most people never got to experience them to begin with! Certainly not enough people to build as thorough a software ecosystem as we expect nowadays.
- chalst 4y ago
  This is, like some other of your comments, very condescending. I won't speculate on what you hope to achieve by these remarks, just comment that I don't think this kind of condescension has done Common Lisp much good over its history.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Oh well, I already know how Common Lisp environments of yore used to be like. If others don't care to learn about them so be it.
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't take HN threads into internecine PL flamewar. It's not in the interests of the thread, the HN community, or the Lisp community. On HN, we've always particularly wanted to avoid the nasty tribal fights that have afflicted CL discussions in the past.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    It is not a flamewar, rather being deprived of the knowledge of what a full blown Common Lisp experience used to be like.
    - dang 4y ago
      Yes but we need you to make those points substantively, neutrally, interestingly—without swipes or putdowns: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. If you just post grumpy one-liners we're going to get a flamewar, and the primary fault for that lies with the comment that starts it. I know from many past comments that you have a ton of knowledge to share—it would be way better if you would explain some of that to the rest of us, rather than holding it back and just giving us a shallow version of your final conclusion, with a pointed end.
abrax3141 4y ago
I’ve used all of these semi-extensively (slightly less so LW). The environments you get with FL and LW are useful if you aren’t an experienced Emacs user, and each of the pro ones comes with a lot of useful support (and FL’s amazing but expensive gdb), but these days, if all you want to do is get programming done, and don’t need, or don’t want to pay for a highly supported world-class engineering platform, you can do pretty much everything you want at a lot less cost and weight with sbcl, emacs, amd some calling to python. Libraries. If some multi-millionaire wanted to do the world a solid, they’d buy and open source (and pay for continuing support) for FL.
- thisgyjuijhyeee 4y ago
  You make it sound like SBCL is an also ran. SBCL powers Google flights.
  - abrax3141 4y ago
    Def didn’t mean that. I use sbcl+emacs all the time. It’s my go to platform. I’ve used FL and LW but don’t need them. SBCL+emacs is all you really need. (I started lisping before slime so never really got into it. If it’s half as good as folks claim then maybe square all of the above. But someone else will have to chime in on that.)
- aidenn0 4y ago
  As a lifelong vi user, SLIME is useful even if you aren't an experienced emacs user. For a while I used SLIME as my debugger and vim as my editor.
  - ctrlmeta 4y ago
    How do you use SLIME in Vim? Isn't SLIME written in Emacs Lisp which runs only in Emacs? Honest question how you could run an Emacs package in Vim?
    - 3836293648 4y ago

pjmlp 4y ago

And so the knowledge of a poor development experience for Common Lisp keeps spreading.

abrax3141 4y ago
Who said poor development environment. Emacs is a terrific lisp editor and straight sbcl (or any real lisp) is a better dev env than almost any other straight pl env.
- medo-bear 4y ago
  i think you mean sbcl+emacs+slime/sly. straight sbcl is pretty limited
  - abrax3141 4y ago
    To be clear, slime isn’t necessary.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Compared to how Lisp Machines used to like, yes it is poorer. Commercial CL environments are the surviving ones that still offer a similar experience.
  - abrax3141 4y ago
    Yeah, but that’s just complaining that just because we used to have flying cars we still should. We decided as a society to give up on flying cars. They’re gone. Move on with your (our) boring 2D lives.
    - ryukafalz 4y ago
      I don’t think it’s fair to say that we’ve given up on Lisp machines because we chose to do so. Most people never got to experience them to begin with! Certainly not enough people to build as thorough a software ecosystem as we expect nowadays.
chalst 4y ago
This is, like some other of your comments, very condescending. I won't speculate on what you hope to achieve by these remarks, just comment that I don't think this kind of condescension has done Common Lisp much good over its history.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Oh well, I already know how Common Lisp environments of yore used to be like. If others don't care to learn about them so be it.
dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads into internecine PL flamewar. It's not in the interests of the thread, the HN community, or the Lisp community. On HN, we've always particularly wanted to avoid the nasty tribal fights that have afflicted CL discussions in the past.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  It is not a flamewar, rather being deprived of the knowledge of what a full blown Common Lisp experience used to be like.
  - dang 4y ago
    Yes but we need you to make those points substantively, neutrally, interestingly—without swipes or putdowns: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. If you just post grumpy one-liners we're going to get a flamewar, and the primary fault for that lies with the comment that starts it. I know from many past comments that you have a ton of knowledge to share—it would be way better if you would explain some of that to the rest of us, rather than holding it back and just giving us a shallow version of your final conclusion, with a pointed end.

abrax3141 4y ago

I’ve used all of these semi-extensively (slightly less so LW). The environments you get with FL and LW are useful if you aren’t an experienced Emacs user, and each of the pro ones comes with a lot of useful support (and FL’s amazing but expensive gdb), but these days, if all you want to do is get programming done, and don’t need, or don’t want to pay for a highly supported world-class engineering platform, you can do pretty much everything you want at a lot less cost and weight with sbcl, emacs, amd some calling to python. Libraries. If some multi-millionaire wanted to do the world a solid, they’d buy and open source (and pay for continuing support) for FL.

thisgyjuijhyeee 4y ago
You make it sound like SBCL is an also ran. SBCL powers Google flights.
- abrax3141 4y ago
  Def didn’t mean that. I use sbcl+emacs all the time. It’s my go to platform. I’ve used FL and LW but don’t need them. SBCL+emacs is all you really need. (I started lisping before slime so never really got into it. If it’s half as good as folks claim then maybe square all of the above. But someone else will have to chime in on that.)
aidenn0 4y ago
As a lifelong vi user, SLIME is useful even if you aren't an experienced emacs user. For a while I used SLIME as my debugger and vim as my editor.
- ctrlmeta 4y ago
  How do you use SLIME in Vim? Isn't SLIME written in Emacs Lisp which runs only in Emacs? Honest question how you could run an Emacs package in Vim?
  - 3836293648 4y ago