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> "we're lucky they weren't in a dominant position when TCP/IP or HTML were invented" TCP/IP and HTML became dominant because they were open standards. Should
by Reason077 4y ago
> "we're lucky they weren't in a dominant position when TCP/IP or HTML were invented"
TCP/IP and HTML became dominant because they were open standards. Should they have been proprietary, they would have floundered and something else would have emerged instead.
- rjzzleep 4y agoI guess people have forgotten, that Webkit came out of KHTML from the KDE team and that Apple was a nightmare when it came to contributing code back. They just released a huge dump of the whole thing.
- klodolph 4y agoI remember this... it was just a fork. Projects get forked. It's unfortunate from some perspectives, but from other perspectives you can understand why forks happen. When you have a long-running fork, especially one that is so active, merging it naturally becomes a nightmare. This is expected and ordinary. The Linux kernel gets forked by Android vendors and others all the time. A lot of the changes never make it upstream, for various reasons. At least the story ends a bit better for KHTML / WebKit.
- rjzzleep 4y agoEvery single Apple patch to GitHub projects is done by the same single indistinguishable user account. This isn't just "some long-running fork". It is Apple culture to actively prohibit contributions to open source projects unless 5 managers sign off on it.
- cma 4y agoThey really don't like people "poaching" their employees/wildlife. Remember they illegally collided to stop other large tech firms with Apple board members from cross recruiting.
- KerrAvon 4y agoNo, it’s usually just overzealous lawyers. Remember that Apple is still a pre-dot-com company and — like Microsoft — retains vestiges of those attitudes.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoI think that's collusion not collision :) But probably a case of "Damn You AutoCorrect" :)
- pjmlp 4y agoThey don't even remember how vertical integrated they were before OS X came to be, how would they remember that?
- chalst 4y agoThis isn't quite the same thing. Apple are really terrible at cultivating open source - more obvious than KHTML is the fiasco that resulted from Apple's half-hearted efforts to kindle a community around Darwin - but my impression is that they have been decent enough with the kind of openness that standards processes need.
- jojohohanon 4y agoI was disappointed in how the Dylan project ended up.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoWere there ever really interested in Darwin being a thing? I've been following Mac closely since OSX and I've never seen it getting any limelight.
- chalst 4y agoAt Apple's executive level, it doesn't look like anyone ever really cared. But people were hired, like Jordan Hubbard, who were supposed to liaise with the community and it's clear that both a nontrivial number of Apple developers were optimistic about the prospects for a healthy Darwin community and that many Apple users found Apple's choices in the early years of Darwin being open sourced and then partly closed to be very disappointing.
- KerrAvon 4y agoI don’t get this criticism; this is a case where open source _worked_. People complained about it. Apple cleaned up their act on it a bit, but still maintained WebKit as a fork. And Google forked WebKit when they decided they didn’t want to play in Apple’s sandbox anymore. This is how it’s actually supposed to work. It gets messy sometimes because humans are involved.
- smoldesu 4y agoActiveX would like to have a word with you.
- fezfight 4y agoYes, that attempt to EEE the web was thwarted thankfully.
- smoldesu 4y agoRight. If the government hadn't stepped in to encourage Microsoft to play nice, we might live in a world where "the web" simply means Internet Explorer. I'm beyond the point of negotiating with the people on this website. Apple is due in for exactly the same treatment, it's only a matter of time before the US eats their favorite crow.
- fezfight 4y agoIf it wasnt clear in my reply, I agree with you. But as an aside, don't let this site get to you too much. There's a lot of arguing for sport that goes on here.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y agoInstead we live in a world where the web means Chrome. How wonderful!
- fezfight 4y agoThey usurped the minds a generation with free email and YouTube.
- KerrAvon 4y agoLook, as someone who was rooting for MS to lose big time back then, I would have been happy for that to be true. But MS lost through hubris, not the antitrust settlement.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
- fattire 4y ago> TCP/IP and HTML became dominant because they were open standards. Should they have been proprietary, they would have floundered and something else would have emerged instead. Anyone remember AppleTalk? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleTalk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleTalk