5 ms·

A Second Constitutional Convention? Some Republicans Want to Force One

10 points by christophilus 4y ago

christophilus 4y ago
My brother and I had a long conversation last night about expatriating. He's seriously concerned that we're facing one of those crucial junctures that mark the history of all empires. He and I tend to be on opposite sides of the political spectrum, though I'd say we're both fairly centrist. I'm trying to assess whether he's been caught up in an alarmist bubble, or if there is reason for real concern. This article makes me think I've been burying my head in the sand. If you have expatriated from the US, where'd you end up, and how do you feel about that decision in retrospect?
- hirundo 4y ago
  This article should ease fears about a convention: https://reason.com/volokh/2022/09/05/my-skepticism-about-fears-of-a-constitutional-convention/ https://reason.com/volokh/2022/09/05/my-skepticism-about-fea... Whatever is passed in such a convention must be ratified by legislatures (or state conventions) in 3/4 of all states (38 states). It is very unlikely that particularly conservative or liberal proposals could meet that bar.
  - christophilus 4y ago
    Yeah. That was my conclusion too, but the fact that some prominent people are calling for a convention is startling to me. It opened my eyes to how out of touch I am with the current political pulse.
h2odragon 4y ago
Most Republicans I know want our current government drastically slimmed down until it more closely resembles that outlined by the Constitution we already have. I know of none who think a new convention is a good idea. Of course the media tells us most Republicans are racist misogynists slavering for a new empire led by an anointed God King. They seem to have a distorted view, in other words; so its hardly surprising that they're inaccurate here, either.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  > Of course the media tells us most Republicans are racist misogynists slavering for a new empire led by an anointed God King. And Republicans chose Donald Trump as their leader in order to disprove this perception?
  - h2odragon 4y ago
    Can you suggest a more clownish, less serious, less menacing figurehead?
    - klyrs 4y ago
      Peewee Herman?
    - turzmo 4y ago
      Sure, Biden, but Trump is plenty menacing himself.
    - squarefoot 4y ago
      Trump may be a harmless clown by himself, but the uneducated, violent, armed and trigger happy adepts subjected to his cult of personality are not.
      - h2odragon 4y ago
        I am every one of those categories, here to tell you that all I want is to live in peace with others and pursue my own happiness. I say things here like "we don't need to agree on everything in order to work together on the things we do agree on" and "people have a right to be wrong". That is the revolutionary spirit that animates many Trump supporters who are disgusted with Trump, which is so dangerous that it must be suppressed with extralegal means. A "big tent" philosophy.
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    >> And Republicans chose Donald Trump as their leader in order to disprove this perception? Republicans are split on Trump: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/08/09/2-traits-of-the-parties-trump-and-the-gop/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/08/09/2-traits-of-... My guess is that if Trump runs for president in 2024 he will split the Republican vote and will not win.
mindslight 4y ago
> backers of the convention idea now hope to harness the power of Republican-controlled state legislatures to petition Congress and force a convention they see as a way to strip away power from Washington and impose new fiscal restraints, at a minimum I might take this seriously if federal-level Republicans ever made a principled stand for fiscal restraint. Instead, they wholeheartedly endorse the Keynesian low interest rate treadmill and gluttonous corporate welfare, while making a show of opposing any spending that would compensate for the havoc it then wreaks on the middle class. Kicking off the downfall, the gold standard was ended under Nixon, a Republican. And in the present day, our economy is currently being ravaged by the $6B Trumpflation, that Republicans are desperately trying to pin on the current administration who merely showed up after the fuse was lit. Modern Monetary Theory and the Austrian School are the two ends of the spectrum of honest approaches. The Republican money-printing corporate-giveaway "trickle-down" hypocrisy has destroyed the decentralized economy, and pinned our younger generations under a crushing asset bubble that leaves them little route to starting families of their own. Politically, the lack of a coherent fiscally restrained political option is exactly what is causing younger people to abandon belief in "late stage capitalism" all together, and embrace even more centralized approaches. The first step to creating a workable political alternative is to call out Republican fiscal hypocrisy for what it is.
- krapp 4y ago
  I think what the Republicans want is to strip power from the Federal government to prevent it from acting as a check against the Supreme Court, and the ability of Southern states to pass extremist laws in the wake of its recent decisions. That or an Amendment banning abortion and gay marriage altogether, but I don't think that's likely to pass muster.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    Religious fundamentalism only becomes attractive due to economic disenfranchisement. The fundamentalism also serves as a distraction from the economic conditions. It seems as if we're coming to the moment of truth of whether the Republican Party's four decades of looting-destruction politics has formed an inescapable death spiral, or if we can pull up. (Just to be clear here - I have little love for the Democratic Party or the deep state. But I'd rather have the wheels stay on the cart than have it be overrun by misled nutjobs)
joshuaheard 4y ago
This is a good idea. We need a Constitutional amendment for a balanced budget. It is clear neither party can control spending. Also a limit on the Interstate Commerce Clause which the courts have expanded beyond recognition giving Washington DC much more power than originally contemplated.

10 points by christophilus 4y ago

My brother and I had a long conversation last night about expatriating. He's seriously concerned that we're facing one of those crucial junctures that mark the history of all empires. He and I tend to be on opposite sides of the political spectrum, though I'd say we're both fairly centrist. I'm trying to assess whether he's been caught up in an alarmist bubble, or if there is reason for real concern. This article makes me think I've been burying my head in the sand. If you have expatriated from the US, where'd you end up, and how do you feel about that decision in retrospect?

hirundo 4y ago
This article should ease fears about a convention: https://reason.com/volokh/2022/09/05/my-skepticism-about-fears-of-a-constitutional-convention/ https://reason.com/volokh/2022/09/05/my-skepticism-about-fea... Whatever is passed in such a convention must be ratified by legislatures (or state conventions) in 3/4 of all states (38 states). It is very unlikely that particularly conservative or liberal proposals could meet that bar.
- christophilus 4y ago
  Yeah. That was my conclusion too, but the fact that some prominent people are calling for a convention is startling to me. It opened my eyes to how out of touch I am with the current political pulse.

h2odragon 4y ago

Most Republicans I know want our current government drastically slimmed down until it more closely resembles that outlined by the Constitution we already have. I know of none who think a new convention is a good idea. Of course the media tells us most Republicans are racist misogynists slavering for a new empire led by an anointed God King. They seem to have a distorted view, in other words; so its hardly surprising that they're inaccurate here, either.

hotpotamus 4y ago
> Of course the media tells us most Republicans are racist misogynists slavering for a new empire led by an anointed God King. And Republicans chose Donald Trump as their leader in order to disprove this perception?
- h2odragon 4y ago
  Can you suggest a more clownish, less serious, less menacing figurehead?
  - klyrs 4y ago
    Peewee Herman?
  - turzmo 4y ago
    Sure, Biden, but Trump is plenty menacing himself.
  - squarefoot 4y ago
    Trump may be a harmless clown by himself, but the uneducated, violent, armed and trigger happy adepts subjected to his cult of personality are not.
    - h2odragon 4y ago
      I am every one of those categories, here to tell you that all I want is to live in peace with others and pursue my own happiness. I say things here like "we don't need to agree on everything in order to work together on the things we do agree on" and "people have a right to be wrong". That is the revolutionary spirit that animates many Trump supporters who are disgusted with Trump, which is so dangerous that it must be suppressed with extralegal means. A "big tent" philosophy.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  >> And Republicans chose Donald Trump as their leader in order to disprove this perception? Republicans are split on Trump: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/08/09/2-traits-of-the-parties-trump-and-the-gop/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/08/09/2-traits-of-... My guess is that if Trump runs for president in 2024 he will split the Republican vote and will not win.

mindslight 4y ago

> backers of the convention idea now hope to harness the power of Republican-controlled state legislatures to petition Congress and force a convention they see as a way to strip away power from Washington and impose new fiscal restraints, at a minimum I might take this seriously if federal-level Republicans ever made a principled stand for fiscal restraint. Instead, they wholeheartedly endorse the Keynesian low interest rate treadmill and gluttonous corporate welfare, while making a show of opposing any spending that would compensate for the havoc it then wreaks on the middle class. Kicking off the downfall, the gold standard was ended under Nixon, a Republican. And in the present day, our economy is currently being ravaged by the $6B Trumpflation, that Republicans are desperately trying to pin on the current administration who merely showed up after the fuse was lit. Modern Monetary Theory and the Austrian School are the two ends of the spectrum of honest approaches. The Republican money-printing corporate-giveaway "trickle-down" hypocrisy has destroyed the decentralized economy, and pinned our younger generations under a crushing asset bubble that leaves them little route to starting families of their own. Politically, the lack of a coherent fiscally restrained political option is exactly what is causing younger people to abandon belief in "late stage capitalism" all together, and embrace even more centralized approaches. The first step to creating a workable political alternative is to call out Republican fiscal hypocrisy for what it is.

krapp 4y ago
I think what the Republicans want is to strip power from the Federal government to prevent it from acting as a check against the Supreme Court, and the ability of Southern states to pass extremist laws in the wake of its recent decisions. That or an Amendment banning abortion and gay marriage altogether, but I don't think that's likely to pass muster.
- mindslight 4y ago
  Religious fundamentalism only becomes attractive due to economic disenfranchisement. The fundamentalism also serves as a distraction from the economic conditions. It seems as if we're coming to the moment of truth of whether the Republican Party's four decades of looting-destruction politics has formed an inescapable death spiral, or if we can pull up. (Just to be clear here - I have little love for the Democratic Party or the deep state. But I'd rather have the wheels stay on the cart than have it be overrun by misled nutjobs)

joshuaheard 4y ago

This is a good idea. We need a Constitutional amendment for a balanced budget. It is clear neither party can control spending. Also a limit on the Interstate Commerce Clause which the courts have expanded beyond recognition giving Washington DC much more power than originally contemplated.