6 ms·

What is hate speech? Was Charlie Hebdo hate speech? Rushdie? A lot of people certainly think so. I see hate speech across nearly every internet platform includi

What is hate speech? Was Charlie Hebdo hate speech? Rushdie? A lot of people certainly think so. I see hate speech across nearly every internet platform including this one. There’s no shortage of hate speech against wealthy people or white men, etc. Is that allowed?

arcatech 4y ago
The person you’re responding to said “designed to promote hate speech”. Your examples don’t sound like that.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  What does that mean? That the forum operator doesn’t have moderation facilities that suits your tastes in what is and is not hate speech? A forum dedicated to the principal and culture of free speech is designed to promote hate speech?
  - arcatech 4y ago
    Hate speech is clearly defined in various laws against the concept. So it’s not really up to taste. Most popular services attempt to remove hate speech, but doesn’t look like KF does. Btw, a forum dedicated to the principle and culture of free speech would absolutely (by definition) be promoting/hosting hate speech.
    - concordDance 4y ago
      Most laws on hate speech don't use the term hate speech. What is your personal understanding of the term?
      - arcatech 4y ago
        Does it matter? That's up to the people hosting the content right?
    - wizofaus 4y ago
      I'm not sure I understand your last sentence? If I were running a forum dedicated to the principle/culture of "free speech" I would think it's especially important to avoid promoting hate speech, or you run the risk that free speech and hate speech become seen as synonymous, and the wider public deciding that free speech isn't a worthy ideal after all.
      - arcatech 4y ago
        I ended up conflating hosting and promoting which wasn't clear enough. You would be definitely be hosting hate speech, which is essentially promoting it (by using the internet to make that speech more accessible to others than it would be otherwise). The alternative is to accept that moderation is NECESSARY for online communities (or else spam and hate speech will take up a huge part of the content and suddenly you'll realize you're essentially promoting this content afterall) and moderation will always look like the opposite of "free speech".
fullstop 4y ago
I'm not here to define hate speech, and I think that you'd agree that HN was not designed to encourage and promote hate speech. You absolutely can not say the same thing of Kiwifarms. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  There are different degrees, sure. And this place has moderation. But what is the line? Be precise and avoid arbitrary definitions. There are threads here where people call for wealthy peoples heads. Did that cross a line? Could we say it about other people?
  - fullstop 4y ago
    That is still not the primary purpose of HN. Those comments should be flagged, of course, but they in no way align with the specific purpose of HN. Kiwifarms was founded to troll and harass a specific webcomic author. From there it evolved to target and harass specific people or communities. Surely you see the difference here.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - klyrs 4y ago
    > There are threads here where people call for wealthy peoples heads. Did that cross a line? Could we say it about other people? Are they targeting specific rich people in a dedicated and persistent fashion to the point that said rich persons kill themselves? No, that's not happening. I've seen posts of the type you've described. They're almost always dead/banned/shadowbanned. They're much less frequent than any one of anti-black, anti-gay, anti-jew, or anti-trans comments... which are almost always dead/banned/shadowbanned as well. This site does not remotely compare to KF.
  - pornel 4y ago
    You're falling for the heap paradox: If you remove a grain of sand from a heap, tell precisely at which grain of sand it stops being a heap. You can't? Therefore it's impossible to tell if something is a heap of sand! QED

arcatech 4y ago

The person you’re responding to said “designed to promote hate speech”. Your examples don’t sound like that.

nemo44x 4y ago
What does that mean? That the forum operator doesn’t have moderation facilities that suits your tastes in what is and is not hate speech? A forum dedicated to the principal and culture of free speech is designed to promote hate speech?
- arcatech 4y ago
  Hate speech is clearly defined in various laws against the concept. So it’s not really up to taste. Most popular services attempt to remove hate speech, but doesn’t look like KF does. Btw, a forum dedicated to the principle and culture of free speech would absolutely (by definition) be promoting/hosting hate speech.
  - concordDance 4y ago
    Most laws on hate speech don't use the term hate speech. What is your personal understanding of the term?
    - arcatech 4y ago
      Does it matter? That's up to the people hosting the content right?
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    I'm not sure I understand your last sentence? If I were running a forum dedicated to the principle/culture of "free speech" I would think it's especially important to avoid promoting hate speech, or you run the risk that free speech and hate speech become seen as synonymous, and the wider public deciding that free speech isn't a worthy ideal after all.
    - arcatech 4y ago
      I ended up conflating hosting and promoting which wasn't clear enough. You would be definitely be hosting hate speech, which is essentially promoting it (by using the internet to make that speech more accessible to others than it would be otherwise). The alternative is to accept that moderation is NECESSARY for online communities (or else spam and hate speech will take up a huge part of the content and suddenly you'll realize you're essentially promoting this content afterall) and moderation will always look like the opposite of "free speech".

fullstop 4y ago

I'm not here to define hate speech, and I think that you'd agree that HN was not designed to encourage and promote hate speech. You absolutely can not say the same thing of Kiwifarms. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here.

nemo44x 4y ago
There are different degrees, sure. And this place has moderation. But what is the line? Be precise and avoid arbitrary definitions. There are threads here where people call for wealthy peoples heads. Did that cross a line? Could we say it about other people?
- fullstop 4y ago
  That is still not the primary purpose of HN. Those comments should be flagged, of course, but they in no way align with the specific purpose of HN. Kiwifarms was founded to troll and harass a specific webcomic author. From there it evolved to target and harass specific people or communities. Surely you see the difference here.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- klyrs 4y ago
  > There are threads here where people call for wealthy peoples heads. Did that cross a line? Could we say it about other people? Are they targeting specific rich people in a dedicated and persistent fashion to the point that said rich persons kill themselves? No, that's not happening. I've seen posts of the type you've described. They're almost always dead/banned/shadowbanned. They're much less frequent than any one of anti-black, anti-gay, anti-jew, or anti-trans comments... which are almost always dead/banned/shadowbanned as well. This site does not remotely compare to KF.
- pornel 4y ago
  You're falling for the heap paradox: If you remove a grain of sand from a heap, tell precisely at which grain of sand it stops being a heap. You can't? Therefore it's impossible to tell if something is a heap of sand! QED