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(preamble: I know nothing about how armies operate) I remember reading something about "protection of the force" regarding US military operations in 2000's Iraq

(preamble: I know nothing about how armies operate) I remember reading something about "protection of the force" regarding US military operations in 2000's Iraq and I remember something along the line of "we put a lot of resources in protection of the column we send for missions or the patrol", and there was criticism that there was too much emphasis on protection and that was what led in parts to Blackwater [0] sub contractings, so that the force stays safe, and difficulties in getting some objectives done. Hearsays from news outlets from that time though so I really don't know if it has any truth in it. [0] Which makes me think: if anyone has any articles that explain the difference between groups like Blackwater and the russian Wagner group I'd be grateful.

UncleEntity 4y ago
For a while they were mostly just staying on the bases while giving the insurgents free range to roam around and attack convoys which primarily consisted of unarmored vehicles. The last time I was over there in ‘04 they were more proactive after some reservists refused to go out on convoys because it was too unsafe. Bad for recruiting I guess. They used us as bait one night because they were trying to find a Russian anti-aircraft gun they were shooting at convoys with, didn’t find the gun but we did find out they were now setting up two kill zone ambushes because if a convoy got hit they’d stop a kilometer or so up the road to regroup but they were shitty shots and set off the secondary ambush before anyone was stopped so fucked the whole thing up. Frickin’ amateurs… The only blackwater folks I talked to were doing VIP escort duty but a lot of the support rolls were civilians, I was a non-combatant truck driver running all over the country in ‘04.
- johnchristopher 4y ago
  Thanks :).
- rdl 4y ago
  Blackwater was a bit different from most of the other contractors since they were working for State vs. DOD (along with Triple Canopy and DynCorp) and had tasking which was directly in support of case officers going out meeting with agents (and often in Afghanistan and possibly Iraq they actually did the CIA mission for them), rather than escorting the case officer to do it... Blackwater and all the companies had outdated TTP in 2003/2004/2005/2006-ish but at least Blackwater had pretty solid personnel in 2003/2004/2005 (former special ops or at least high-end combat arms guys) due to high salaries, vs. later where day rate got down to the point that a lot of firms were hiring former prison guards, bouncers, etc. I was running mostly low-profile in 2004 (old soft BMW sedans, local dress, local security forces, locally sourced weapons) and it was...interesting. Honestly more afraid of getting lit up by US forces or other contractors than insurgents, although due to our soft skinned vehicles and relatively light weapons, if we got discovered by insurgents enroute we would not get kidnapped but would probably not do very well if we didn't gtfo within the initial few seconds of engagement. Almost got into a bad situation a few days after arriving. Minivan with two Americans with Hi-Powers, two Kurds with AKs, vs. a PKM, ~6 guys with AKs, and 3 trucks, stopped and boxed in, would have been at least not a kidnapping.
O__________O 4y ago
For the unfamiliar: - Wagner Group (Russian Private Military Company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group - Blackwater (American Private Military Company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(company) _____________________ - Re: Blackwater vs Wagner Group https://www.google.com/search?q=blackwater+vs+wagner+group https://www.google.com/search?q=blackwater+vs+wagner+group
agapon 4y ago
google "wagner sledgehammer"

UncleEntity 4y ago

For a while they were mostly just staying on the bases while giving the insurgents free range to roam around and attack convoys which primarily consisted of unarmored vehicles. The last time I was over there in ‘04 they were more proactive after some reservists refused to go out on convoys because it was too unsafe. Bad for recruiting I guess. They used us as bait one night because they were trying to find a Russian anti-aircraft gun they were shooting at convoys with, didn’t find the gun but we did find out they were now setting up two kill zone ambushes because if a convoy got hit they’d stop a kilometer or so up the road to regroup but they were shitty shots and set off the secondary ambush before anyone was stopped so fucked the whole thing up. Frickin’ amateurs… The only blackwater folks I talked to were doing VIP escort duty but a lot of the support rolls were civilians, I was a non-combatant truck driver running all over the country in ‘04.

johnchristopher 4y ago
Thanks :).
rdl 4y ago
Blackwater was a bit different from most of the other contractors since they were working for State vs. DOD (along with Triple Canopy and DynCorp) and had tasking which was directly in support of case officers going out meeting with agents (and often in Afghanistan and possibly Iraq they actually did the CIA mission for them), rather than escorting the case officer to do it... Blackwater and all the companies had outdated TTP in 2003/2004/2005/2006-ish but at least Blackwater had pretty solid personnel in 2003/2004/2005 (former special ops or at least high-end combat arms guys) due to high salaries, vs. later where day rate got down to the point that a lot of firms were hiring former prison guards, bouncers, etc. I was running mostly low-profile in 2004 (old soft BMW sedans, local dress, local security forces, locally sourced weapons) and it was...interesting. Honestly more afraid of getting lit up by US forces or other contractors than insurgents, although due to our soft skinned vehicles and relatively light weapons, if we got discovered by insurgents enroute we would not get kidnapped but would probably not do very well if we didn't gtfo within the initial few seconds of engagement. Almost got into a bad situation a few days after arriving. Minivan with two Americans with Hi-Powers, two Kurds with AKs, vs. a PKM, ~6 guys with AKs, and 3 trucks, stopped and boxed in, would have been at least not a kidnapping.

O__________O 4y ago

For the unfamiliar: - Wagner Group (Russian Private Military Company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group - Blackwater (American Private Military Company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(company) _____________________ - Re: Blackwater vs Wagner Group https://www.google.com/search?q=blackwater+vs+wagner+group https://www.google.com/search?q=blackwater+vs+wagner+group

agapon 4y ago

google "wagner sledgehammer"