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So, enough iPhone users opt in to surveillance to make this a globally useful method for stalking? Wow.

mccorrinall 4y ago
Enough users opt in to help other people find their forgotten keys :)
ShamelessC 4y ago
That is an incredibly bad faith interpretation of what’s going on. I don’t have to cite statistics to know that users aren’t “opting in to surveillance” - that’s the clickbait version lacking any nuance. In reality, Apple has built up enough trust and good will with their customers that they not only gladly enable a feature that makes it possible to retrieve lost or stolen items, but they even pay for these aforementioned AirTags. Whether or not that’s wise is another matter, but come on - don’t blame the victim.
- MForster 4y ago
  Sorry for coming across as using bad faith. It's just that I didn't understand the overall model. And the article didn't explain it. Also, I wouldn't blame the victim. I'd rather blame Apple for making their users opt in.
  - ShamelessC 4y ago
    Fair enough! Thanks for clarifying.
  - pb7 4y ago
    As opposed to what? Opt out?
    - MForster 4y ago
      As opposed to not linking "find my phone" to "find AirTags".
      - tzs 4y ago
        They are separate. Under the "Find My iPhone" setting there are separate toggles for "Find My iPhone" and "Find My network". If you enable "Find My iPhone" but do not enabled "Find My network" you can only find your phone when it is online. Enabling "Find My network" to make your phone participate in the "Find My" network lets you potentially find your phone when it is not online. Same with "Find My iPad".
        MForster 4y ago
        Sorry for getting the terminology wrong. I don't use iPhones. I meant coupling the "Find My network" feature for iPhones and AirTags.
        tzs 4y ago
        It's not really coupled. It's more of a quid pro quo relationship. There are two separate "find lost things" systems. 1. There is a system for finding online things. This is available on devices that have internet connections, and can only be used to find the device when it is online. The device uses its internet connection to report to a central server, which can then tell the owner where to find the device. 2. There is a system for finding things that aren't online. Devices that do not have an internet connection can use this system to let nearby devices know they are there. If those nearby devices have an internet connection, they can relay that sighting along with their location to a central server, which can then tell the owner where to find the missing devices. The relay to the server is protected by some clever public key cryptography so that the server doesn't find out whose device spotted the missing device or where it was. An iPhone is capable of using both of those systems. There's a toggle for each of them in the settings. If you want to be able to find your missing iPhone when it is offline you need to use the second system. If you only need to find it when it has an internet connection, you just need to use the first system. It seems pretty fair. If you want to use other people's phones to find yours when it is offline, you have to let them use your phone to find their offline devices.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  The apple user is the enabler not the victim. Without that person this could never happen.

Enough users opt in to help other people find their forgotten keys :)

That is an incredibly bad faith interpretation of what’s going on. I don’t have to cite statistics to know that users aren’t “opting in to surveillance” - that’s the clickbait version lacking any nuance. In reality, Apple has built up enough trust and good will with their customers that they not only gladly enable a feature that makes it possible to retrieve lost or stolen items, but they even pay for these aforementioned AirTags. Whether or not that’s wise is another matter, but come on - don’t blame the victim.

MForster 4y ago
Sorry for coming across as using bad faith. It's just that I didn't understand the overall model. And the article didn't explain it. Also, I wouldn't blame the victim. I'd rather blame Apple for making their users opt in.
- ShamelessC 4y ago
  Fair enough! Thanks for clarifying.
- pb7 4y ago
  As opposed to what? Opt out?
  - MForster 4y ago
    As opposed to not linking "find my phone" to "find AirTags".
    - tzs 4y ago
      They are separate. Under the "Find My iPhone" setting there are separate toggles for "Find My iPhone" and "Find My network". If you enable "Find My iPhone" but do not enabled "Find My network" you can only find your phone when it is online. Enabling "Find My network" to make your phone participate in the "Find My" network lets you potentially find your phone when it is not online. Same with "Find My iPad".
      - MForster 4y ago
        Sorry for getting the terminology wrong. I don't use iPhones. I meant coupling the "Find My network" feature for iPhones and AirTags.
        tzs 4y ago
        It's not really coupled. It's more of a quid pro quo relationship. There are two separate "find lost things" systems. 1. There is a system for finding online things. This is available on devices that have internet connections, and can only be used to find the device when it is online. The device uses its internet connection to report to a central server, which can then tell the owner where to find the device. 2. There is a system for finding things that aren't online. Devices that do not have an internet connection can use this system to let nearby devices know they are there. If those nearby devices have an internet connection, they can relay that sighting along with their location to a central server, which can then tell the owner where to find the missing devices. The relay to the server is protected by some clever public key cryptography so that the server doesn't find out whose device spotted the missing device or where it was. An iPhone is capable of using both of those systems. There's a toggle for each of them in the settings. If you want to be able to find your missing iPhone when it is offline you need to use the second system. If you only need to find it when it has an internet connection, you just need to use the first system. It seems pretty fair. If you want to use other people's phones to find yours when it is offline, you have to let them use your phone to find their offline devices.
ipaddr 4y ago
The apple user is the enabler not the victim. Without that person this could never happen.