8 ms·

Stallman is right again…

Y-bar 4y ago
> Hosting providers MUST be forced to provide a platform for everyone and anyone against the will of the provider. It SHALL NOT matter how many people their customers brag about driving to suicide. Nor should the hosting provider take into consideration harassment campaigns orchestrated by users of their platforms. -- Stallman, probably? /endsarcasm
- _dain_ 4y ago
  - pjc50 4y ago
    As people say in the free speech issue: if it's illegal - if you've got actual evidence - report it to the police. Plenty of KF users have been in contact with the police .. making bogus reports. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psni-investigating-after-canadian-youtuber-is-harassed-in-northern-ireland-by-online-trolls-41960100.html https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psn... In a statement to The Sunday Times, the PSNI said they received a report of an incident last Tuesday. “Officers attended the scene but found nothing ongoing on their arrival. Inquiries are continuing surrounding the incident which is being treated as hate-motivated at this time,” a PSNI spokesperson added.
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      Weird how the "hey, it isn't illegal" defense is good enough for KF but not for Cloudflare.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    Mhmm... They have nothing to do with that behaviour. wink They're just joking about the self harm and suicide. wink The swatting of the discussed people is a completely unrelated coincidence. wink wink It's a terrible art people master. It's like the worst hateful accounts on twitter which are extremely clean - you couldn't report a single tweet, yet we know exactly what they mean. Of course this account for explicitly-super-straight is not against anyone. Of course all this public information collected on specific people and their connections is for fun and not an invitation to harass them.
    - _dain_ 4y ago
      >The swatting of the discussed people is a completely unrelated coincidence. yeah, because it's so difficult to just SWAT someone and claim you're someone you're not? The MTG swatter literally used text-to-speech and said roughly "I'm from Kiwifarms and this is my username: ...". why would anyone go to the trouble of disguising their voice only to tell police who they really are? Null made it very clear that he cooperates with law enforcement if illegal content is put on the site. if it was actually that user, he'd be in a jail cell by now. there was no discussion of anything like this in any thread prior to the attack. it's so obviously a hoax. why do people have such a fucking blind spot about this? it's the 911 equivalent of a phishing email with a forged sender address. it's trivial.
      - viraptor 4y ago
        You're choosing one obvious hoax and ignoring piles of reports, from a large number of people, going back years with recurring issues that coincide with kf postings. It's not even worth linking - they're trivial to find on twitter for anyone interested.
        yesco 4y ago
        If they are trivial to find then why aren't you linking them? This thread is the first I'm even hearing of kiwi-farms, but skimming through I'm only seeing direct evidence in favor of them and only vague unsourced allegations against them. I hope you understand that even implying a twitter mob is involved isn't doing you any favors here.
        belltaco 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms#Harassment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms#Harassment https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-experts-165758039.html https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-expe...
        viraptor 4y ago
        > If they are trivial to find then why aren't you linking them? Because either you care and can spend 5min to find many personal threads on how this impacted people's lives, or not. I'm not here to summarise this for you. This is not random internet drama for entertainment.
  - squabbles 4y ago
    You're right, but people don't care about the truth. Personally I doubt that keffals is behind the attacks, since the site has been facing them for ages. A site like the KiwiFarms that compiles unsavory deeds is going to attract the ire of those same people who will do unsavory things to get that information hidden.
    - richbell 4y ago
  - flumpcakes 4y ago
    I'm not sure on all of your claims, and frankly I can't be bothered to get any more into this drama but I will say one thing: I found it shocking that the person behind the dropkiwifarms campaign does openly say they are making home-made drugs, and proudly say they will organise for children to take it without parental consent. I'm sure this must be illegal? This is entirely ignored in all reporting of the Cloudflare situation. If I was a reporter and I saw this in my 5 minutes of research, I would very quickly find someone else to be the spokesperson of dropkiwifarms.
    - Mezzie 4y ago
      > I found it shocking that the person behind the dropkiwifarms campaign does openly say they are making home-made drugs, and proudly say they will organise for children to take it without parental consent. I'm sure this must be illegal? It is. She's distributing controlled substances/substances that require a prescription. Essentially she's practicing medicine without a license. This would be true even if she were helping adults.
  - sgarland 4y ago
    > the driving-people-to-suicide thing is a lie. Here's a former FBI Asst. Dir. asserting that they do [0] (archive link in case it's removed [1]). I'll grant you that the government can and has lied, but all of this seems a lot like one side full of tremendously shitty people saying they're not guilty, and the other side saying the opposite. In the absence of definitive proof, I'll go with character. [0] https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/status/1566438538765279232?s=20&t=cvW2x1uT8Ph5F0e6mwCPiQ https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/status/15664385387652792... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20220905075857/https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/status/1566438538765279232 https://web.archive.org/web/20220905075857/https://twitter.c...
    - _dain_ 4y ago
      He's just repeating what he read on wikipedia. I really doubt he looked closely into the matter.
      - Kiro 4y ago
        Why are you defending KF so hard? Even in the thread on the Cloudflare issue itself I saw the N-word, transphobic and antisemitic slurs, and calls to doxx the CEO... and that was just the first page.
        _dain_ 4y ago
        because literally none of that justifies a ddos attack or censorship. hurting people's feelings is not a crime. I defend kiwifarms because it's funny and it's one of the last bastions of free speech on the internet.
        Kiro 4y ago
        Still doesn't explain why. You're not defending free speech in general, you're actively defending KF itself. Also, cute edit. Would make a perfect reply to yourself. Oh, another edit. Well, ok then. You think it's "funny" with racism, antisemitism, transphobia and doxxing/harassing people. Case closed.
- birdboy2000 4y ago
  I want content-neutral infrastructure. KF are scum and much of what they do should be illegal, but I want those decisions made in a court of law where they can defend themselves, not by whoever got in the ear of the right tech CEO. Platforms aren't people and shouldn't have rights.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    And yet the courts are inadequate about protecting small-scale, individual rights. KF does targeted harassment, not large-scale terrorism, so agencies don't have much incentive to dedicate a disproportionate amount of resources on taking them offline.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      Isn't it common in the US to sue for damages and shut down illegal behavior that way, e.g. Bollea v. Gawker?
  - neonsunset 4y ago
    Following due process? That's unheard of. Forcing professors investing all their life into advancement of human civilization out of universities because they said a funny word? The should lose all their possessions, it's completely harmless and right, trust me! Calling someone names and pointing out things that are glaring OPSEC mistakes? Immediately drop and do everything to attack them! p.s.: it's very sad to see enthusiasts and prominent engineers like Marcan getting corrupted by the plague of our times.
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    If only the folks saying this stuff showed up in force to defend people other than nightmare bigots.
    - birdboy2000 4y ago
      Most of my outrage is aimed at censorship of left-wing and antiwar content. Much of which is already banned from most of reddit and deranked from google - I don't want to see the whole internet go down that road via DDoS protection, and fear KF, who I hate, was a first step and not a last one. Tech giants started justifying their abuses through "nazis bad" and now pointing out US support for Azov gets your website hidden.
- 8b16380d 4y ago
  Actually yes, probably something close to this.
oneplane 4y ago
[flagged]
- concordDance 4y ago
  The word "Nazi" seems to have expanded in meaning a lot recently, not sure the 1940s Germans would recognize these people as Nazis.
  - barrysteve 4y ago
    Some people have tilted the pronunciation of the word into 'not-see'. Out of sight, out of mind.
    - at_a_remove 4y ago
      The very essence of a thought-terminating cliche.
  - rep_lodsb 4y ago
    Twitter users are conducting a special military operation to denazify the Internet.
  - miked85 4y ago
    For many, the word just means anyone you disagree with now.
- worldofmatthew 4y ago
  Cloudflare and DDOS-Guard allow the booters to exist.
  - oneplane 4y ago
    Two sides of the same coin. I was referring to whatever stallman may or may not have been wrong or right about.
- jl6 4y ago
ok123456 4y ago
Many such cases.

> Hosting providers MUST be forced to provide a platform for everyone and anyone against the will of the provider. It SHALL NOT matter how many people their customers brag about driving to suicide. Nor should the hosting provider take into consideration harassment campaigns orchestrated by users of their platforms. -- Stallman, probably? /endsarcasm

_dain_ 4y ago
- pjc50 4y ago
  As people say in the free speech issue: if it's illegal - if you've got actual evidence - report it to the police. Plenty of KF users have been in contact with the police .. making bogus reports. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psni-investigating-after-canadian-youtuber-is-harassed-in-northern-ireland-by-online-trolls-41960100.html https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psn... In a statement to The Sunday Times, the PSNI said they received a report of an incident last Tuesday. “Officers attended the scene but found nothing ongoing on their arrival. Inquiries are continuing surrounding the incident which is being treated as hate-motivated at this time,” a PSNI spokesperson added.
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    Weird how the "hey, it isn't illegal" defense is good enough for KF but not for Cloudflare.
- viraptor 4y ago
  Mhmm... They have nothing to do with that behaviour. wink They're just joking about the self harm and suicide. wink The swatting of the discussed people is a completely unrelated coincidence. wink wink It's a terrible art people master. It's like the worst hateful accounts on twitter which are extremely clean - you couldn't report a single tweet, yet we know exactly what they mean. Of course this account for explicitly-super-straight is not against anyone. Of course all this public information collected on specific people and their connections is for fun and not an invitation to harass them.
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    >The swatting of the discussed people is a completely unrelated coincidence. yeah, because it's so difficult to just SWAT someone and claim you're someone you're not? The MTG swatter literally used text-to-speech and said roughly "I'm from Kiwifarms and this is my username: ...". why would anyone go to the trouble of disguising their voice only to tell police who they really are? Null made it very clear that he cooperates with law enforcement if illegal content is put on the site. if it was actually that user, he'd be in a jail cell by now. there was no discussion of anything like this in any thread prior to the attack. it's so obviously a hoax. why do people have such a fucking blind spot about this? it's the 911 equivalent of a phishing email with a forged sender address. it's trivial.
    - viraptor 4y ago
      You're choosing one obvious hoax and ignoring piles of reports, from a large number of people, going back years with recurring issues that coincide with kf postings. It's not even worth linking - they're trivial to find on twitter for anyone interested.
      - yesco 4y ago
        If they are trivial to find then why aren't you linking them? This thread is the first I'm even hearing of kiwi-farms, but skimming through I'm only seeing direct evidence in favor of them and only vague unsourced allegations against them. I hope you understand that even implying a twitter mob is involved isn't doing you any favors here.
        belltaco 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms#Harassment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms#Harassment https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-experts-165758039.html https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-expe...
        viraptor 4y ago
        > If they are trivial to find then why aren't you linking them? Because either you care and can spend 5min to find many personal threads on how this impacted people's lives, or not. I'm not here to summarise this for you. This is not random internet drama for entertainment.
- squabbles 4y ago
  You're right, but people don't care about the truth. Personally I doubt that keffals is behind the attacks, since the site has been facing them for ages. A site like the KiwiFarms that compiles unsavory deeds is going to attract the ire of those same people who will do unsavory things to get that information hidden.
  - richbell 4y ago
- flumpcakes 4y ago
  I'm not sure on all of your claims, and frankly I can't be bothered to get any more into this drama but I will say one thing: I found it shocking that the person behind the dropkiwifarms campaign does openly say they are making home-made drugs, and proudly say they will organise for children to take it without parental consent. I'm sure this must be illegal? This is entirely ignored in all reporting of the Cloudflare situation. If I was a reporter and I saw this in my 5 minutes of research, I would very quickly find someone else to be the spokesperson of dropkiwifarms.
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    > I found it shocking that the person behind the dropkiwifarms campaign does openly say they are making home-made drugs, and proudly say they will organise for children to take it without parental consent. I'm sure this must be illegal? It is. She's distributing controlled substances/substances that require a prescription. Essentially she's practicing medicine without a license. This would be true even if she were helping adults.
- sgarland 4y ago
  > the driving-people-to-suicide thing is a lie. Here's a former FBI Asst. Dir. asserting that they do [0] (archive link in case it's removed [1]). I'll grant you that the government can and has lied, but all of this seems a lot like one side full of tremendously shitty people saying they're not guilty, and the other side saying the opposite. In the absence of definitive proof, I'll go with character. [0] https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/status/1566438538765279232?s=20&t=cvW2x1uT8Ph5F0e6mwCPiQ https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/status/15664385387652792... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20220905075857/https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/status/1566438538765279232 https://web.archive.org/web/20220905075857/https://twitter.c...
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    He's just repeating what he read on wikipedia. I really doubt he looked closely into the matter.
    - Kiro 4y ago
      Why are you defending KF so hard? Even in the thread on the Cloudflare issue itself I saw the N-word, transphobic and antisemitic slurs, and calls to doxx the CEO... and that was just the first page.
      - _dain_ 4y ago
        because literally none of that justifies a ddos attack or censorship. hurting people's feelings is not a crime. I defend kiwifarms because it's funny and it's one of the last bastions of free speech on the internet.
        Kiro 4y ago
        Still doesn't explain why. You're not defending free speech in general, you're actively defending KF itself. Also, cute edit. Would make a perfect reply to yourself. Oh, another edit. Well, ok then. You think it's "funny" with racism, antisemitism, transphobia and doxxing/harassing people. Case closed.
birdboy2000 4y ago
I want content-neutral infrastructure. KF are scum and much of what they do should be illegal, but I want those decisions made in a court of law where they can defend themselves, not by whoever got in the ear of the right tech CEO. Platforms aren't people and shouldn't have rights.
- judge2020 4y ago
  And yet the courts are inadequate about protecting small-scale, individual rights. KF does targeted harassment, not large-scale terrorism, so agencies don't have much incentive to dedicate a disproportionate amount of resources on taking them offline.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Isn't it common in the US to sue for damages and shut down illegal behavior that way, e.g. Bollea v. Gawker?
- neonsunset 4y ago
  Following due process? That's unheard of. Forcing professors investing all their life into advancement of human civilization out of universities because they said a funny word? The should lose all their possessions, it's completely harmless and right, trust me! Calling someone names and pointing out things that are glaring OPSEC mistakes? Immediately drop and do everything to attack them! p.s.: it's very sad to see enthusiasts and prominent engineers like Marcan getting corrupted by the plague of our times.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  If only the folks saying this stuff showed up in force to defend people other than nightmare bigots.
  - birdboy2000 4y ago
    Most of my outrage is aimed at censorship of left-wing and antiwar content. Much of which is already banned from most of reddit and deranked from google - I don't want to see the whole internet go down that road via DDoS protection, and fear KF, who I hate, was a first step and not a last one. Tech giants started justifying their abuses through "nazis bad" and now pointing out US support for Azov gets your website hidden.
8b16380d 4y ago
Actually yes, probably something close to this.

oneplane 4y ago

[flagged]

concordDance 4y ago
The word "Nazi" seems to have expanded in meaning a lot recently, not sure the 1940s Germans would recognize these people as Nazis.
- barrysteve 4y ago
  Some people have tilted the pronunciation of the word into 'not-see'. Out of sight, out of mind.
  - at_a_remove 4y ago
    The very essence of a thought-terminating cliche.
- rep_lodsb 4y ago
  Twitter users are conducting a special military operation to denazify the Internet.
- miked85 4y ago
  For many, the word just means anyone you disagree with now.
worldofmatthew 4y ago
Cloudflare and DDOS-Guard allow the booters to exist.
- oneplane 4y ago
  Two sides of the same coin. I was referring to whatever stallman may or may not have been wrong or right about.
jl6 4y ago

ok123456 4y ago

Many such cases.