5 ms·

The fact A-series has a sqrt(2) radio is obviously neat on its own, but does it save material, or have much benefit in general in practice? My (very limited) e

The fact A-series has a sqrt(2) radio is obviously neat on its own, but does it save material, or have much benefit in general in practice? My (very limited) experience in printing seems to be 1) they still trim tons of bleed regardless; 2) the fact you can cut A3 into two A4 etc. is great, but doesn't really matter when 99% of the printing paper will be just one size (A4) anyway? 3) Lots of magazines and books use non-standard sizes. Disclaimer: I'm from a metric country. This is a genuine question, not in anyway trying to make excuses for The US' letter size or what not.

tankenmate 4y ago
It saves a lot of resources on the supply side, not on the consumption side. So it does lead to lower prices for consumers, just indirectly.
- thrdbndndn 4y ago
  Sorry I wasn't clear. My point is that, since majority of the demand is A4/letter, in letter's case, they can still use certain size of big rectangular paper and cut them into letter. The fact these larger paper can't be cut into other shapes doesn't really matter on supply side because they're not going to. If they need some other odd shaped papers, just like metric B-series, they do that separately.
  - pornel 4y ago
    Mass printing isn’t done on A4 directly. It’s done on printing machines of a larger size and then cut and folded as needed.
    - thrdbndndn 4y ago
      I get that, I'm saying that precisely will make the size of a single page (A4 or letter) or its ratio irrelevant in practice.
      - tankenmate 4y ago
        The benefit for A* and B* sizes is that you can buy a roll of A0 or B0 and then print directly and then you can cut to any A* of B* without any offcuts. For documents that need bleed to edge you have RA* and SRA* sizes.
Symbiote 4y ago
The best advantage, which you might not realize until you need to use US sizes, is the easy scaling up and down. You can put an A3 sheet on a photocopier and press the "A3→A4" button and have the original perfectly scaled onto a single A4 sheet, or vice-versa. There's usually a button that does A4→2 A5, so you get two half-size copies on the A4 paper, which you can cut into A5 sheets. (In my school, university and workplace experience, it's very common for A3 paper to be loaded in photocopiers and some printers.) Equally, you can design something in A4 size on the computer, then print it on A3 paper without any changes. Then send it to the print shop for an A1 print, still with no changes. An envelope that fits A5 paper will fit once-folded A4 paper perfectly. (Magazines people expect to be photocopied, like scientific journals, are often A4 sized.)
- kergonath 4y ago
  > Equally, you can design something in A4 size on the computer, then print it on A3 paper without any changes. Then send it to the print shop for an A1 print, still with no changes. My equivalent experience in academia is that you can design posters and print drafts on A4 sheets to see how they look and be confident that they won't be butchered when put on A0 at the print shop.
doikor 4y ago
> 2) the fact you can cut A3 into two A4 etc. is great, but doesn't really matter when 99% of the printing paper will be just one size (A4) anyway? This is more for the manufacturing side. At the factory they really only have to make A0 paper that can then be cut to any other A size without any waste. You can't do this if the paper sizes are not related which is the case with North American sizes. Also the fact that you can fold a A4 into A5 (what is used for letters here) with a single fold is really neat.
_ZeD_ 4y ago
FWIW I found it very useful when I was going to university, and broke, and needed to print articles and or books online with the minimum number of sheets, and relying on booklet printing[1] to put up to 4 a4 pages (back and front) on a a5 "book" https://www.printingcenterusa.com/blog/how-to-arrange-pages-for-booklet-printing/ https://www.printingcenterusa.com/blog/how-to-arrange-pages-...
omnimus 4y ago
For digital printing this standard is very important and handy especially at home/work. 1. Not really - if you go to professional digital printer they have other formats +, RA and SRA (A3+, RA3, SRA3) that are slightly bigger to accommodate for bleed. 2. It matters if you want to make saddle stitched binding yourself - you fold A3 and get A4 booklets. 3. If you make bigger runs of anything at professional (offset) printer the standard sizes don't matter that much because you print on big sheets (like B0) that get cut (often multiple different jobs on same sheets). So it's about waste (not printed space that gets trimmed). But the paper waste really matters only in very big runs 5k+. Whats more expensive are offset printer plates that need to be made. So yes the magazines/books can be any size but the space on rest of the plate/paper will be filled as much as possible.
- thrdbndndn 4y ago
  > they have other formats +, RA and SRA (A3+, RA3, SRA3) This is what I'm trying to say though, the whole ratio thing or 1m^2 area thing will be irrelevant, isn't it?
  - omnimus 4y ago
    You end up with A# format. Thats still valuable. For example envelopes and most bags expect A4. Also you can still use the paper gsm for example to calculate the weight when its in A#. Advantages of this system are pretty hidden and subtle but when you notice it helped you then you are glad somebody put lots of thought into it. What would be better alternative? Make it random?
malermeister 4y ago
A lot of printshops lease their printers and pay per page. When they print A4 for customers, they actually print A3 and cut it in half, saving half the printing cost.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  That's no different than the US, where your 8 1/2" x 11" often starts as an 11" x 17"
solidsnack9000 4y ago
The most important practical advantage -- one reason I like the A4 / A5 family -- is simply that proportions are preserved when you print two pages on one sheet and fold over. Adjacent to that is the advantage that there are a family of sheets to work with in practical sizes -- A5, A6 and A7 are all quite useful -- and they bear a certain logical relationship to one another that is easy to work out, in terms of how many of one size fit on another size.

tankenmate 4y ago

It saves a lot of resources on the supply side, not on the consumption side. So it does lead to lower prices for consumers, just indirectly.

thrdbndndn 4y ago
Sorry I wasn't clear. My point is that, since majority of the demand is A4/letter, in letter's case, they can still use certain size of big rectangular paper and cut them into letter. The fact these larger paper can't be cut into other shapes doesn't really matter on supply side because they're not going to. If they need some other odd shaped papers, just like metric B-series, they do that separately.
- pornel 4y ago
  Mass printing isn’t done on A4 directly. It’s done on printing machines of a larger size and then cut and folded as needed.
  - thrdbndndn 4y ago
    I get that, I'm saying that precisely will make the size of a single page (A4 or letter) or its ratio irrelevant in practice.
    - tankenmate 4y ago
      The benefit for A* and B* sizes is that you can buy a roll of A0 or B0 and then print directly and then you can cut to any A* of B* without any offcuts. For documents that need bleed to edge you have RA* and SRA* sizes.

Symbiote 4y ago

The best advantage, which you might not realize until you need to use US sizes, is the easy scaling up and down. You can put an A3 sheet on a photocopier and press the "A3→A4" button and have the original perfectly scaled onto a single A4 sheet, or vice-versa. There's usually a button that does A4→2 A5, so you get two half-size copies on the A4 paper, which you can cut into A5 sheets. (In my school, university and workplace experience, it's very common for A3 paper to be loaded in photocopiers and some printers.) Equally, you can design something in A4 size on the computer, then print it on A3 paper without any changes. Then send it to the print shop for an A1 print, still with no changes. An envelope that fits A5 paper will fit once-folded A4 paper perfectly. (Magazines people expect to be photocopied, like scientific journals, are often A4 sized.)

kergonath 4y ago
> Equally, you can design something in A4 size on the computer, then print it on A3 paper without any changes. Then send it to the print shop for an A1 print, still with no changes. My equivalent experience in academia is that you can design posters and print drafts on A4 sheets to see how they look and be confident that they won't be butchered when put on A0 at the print shop.

doikor 4y ago

> 2) the fact you can cut A3 into two A4 etc. is great, but doesn't really matter when 99% of the printing paper will be just one size (A4) anyway? This is more for the manufacturing side. At the factory they really only have to make A0 paper that can then be cut to any other A size without any waste. You can't do this if the paper sizes are not related which is the case with North American sizes. Also the fact that you can fold a A4 into A5 (what is used for letters here) with a single fold is really neat.

_ZeD_ 4y ago

FWIW I found it very useful when I was going to university, and broke, and needed to print articles and or books online with the minimum number of sheets, and relying on booklet printing[1] to put up to 4 a4 pages (back and front) on a a5 "book" https://www.printingcenterusa.com/blog/how-to-arrange-pages-for-booklet-printing/ https://www.printingcenterusa.com/blog/how-to-arrange-pages-...

omnimus 4y ago

For digital printing this standard is very important and handy especially at home/work. 1. Not really - if you go to professional digital printer they have other formats +, RA and SRA (A3+, RA3, SRA3) that are slightly bigger to accommodate for bleed. 2. It matters if you want to make saddle stitched binding yourself - you fold A3 and get A4 booklets. 3. If you make bigger runs of anything at professional (offset) printer the standard sizes don't matter that much because you print on big sheets (like B0) that get cut (often multiple different jobs on same sheets). So it's about waste (not printed space that gets trimmed). But the paper waste really matters only in very big runs 5k+. Whats more expensive are offset printer plates that need to be made. So yes the magazines/books can be any size but the space on rest of the plate/paper will be filled as much as possible.

thrdbndndn 4y ago
> they have other formats +, RA and SRA (A3+, RA3, SRA3) This is what I'm trying to say though, the whole ratio thing or 1m^2 area thing will be irrelevant, isn't it?
- omnimus 4y ago
  You end up with A# format. Thats still valuable. For example envelopes and most bags expect A4. Also you can still use the paper gsm for example to calculate the weight when its in A#. Advantages of this system are pretty hidden and subtle but when you notice it helped you then you are glad somebody put lots of thought into it. What would be better alternative? Make it random?

malermeister 4y ago

A lot of printshops lease their printers and pay per page. When they print A4 for customers, they actually print A3 and cut it in half, saving half the printing cost.

pessimizer 4y ago
That's no different than the US, where your 8 1/2" x 11" often starts as an 11" x 17"

solidsnack9000 4y ago

The most important practical advantage -- one reason I like the A4 / A5 family -- is simply that proportions are preserved when you print two pages on one sheet and fold over. Adjacent to that is the advantage that there are a family of sheets to work with in practical sizes -- A5, A6 and A7 are all quite useful -- and they bear a certain logical relationship to one another that is easy to work out, in terms of how many of one size fit on another size.