5 ms·

Tell me about it. During basic training (1983) the sgt was introducing us to camouflage. Something like "Out there are twenty soldiers hiding and you can't se

Tell me about it. During basic training (1983) the sgt was introducing us to camouflage. Something like "Out there are twenty soldiers hiding and you can't see them!" Me: Raises hand, "Permission to speak? Yeah, there's one there, and there, and over there..." Sgt: "Your colorblind, right? Drop and start pushing the ground down until I'm tired."

mcv 4y ago
And after pushing the ground I hope he made you the designated camouflaged-enemy spotter? This is a really cool superpower to have. I honestly had no idea that this was a thing, but I guess it makes sense; colour blind people do see colour, but they see it in a different way, which could be leveraged to spot things people with normal vision don't. I guess that also means that every squad should have one colour blind person, and camouflage should be designed to foil colour blind people too. Of course there are different kinds of colourblindness, which makes things more complicated.
- Rediscover 4y ago
  Yes, designated for that and night patrols (I used to have spectacular low-light vision).
ben_w 4y ago
> Drop and start pushing the ground down until I'm tired. I've never understood, and feel I have no intuition for, responses like this. What's the value added by this? Any excuse for exercise? Internalising that the sergeant is always right even when they're wrong? Or is "permission to speak" just a Hollywood affectation not really present in the military?
- Rediscover 4y ago
  You are correct. Any excuse for exercise and dominance (sgt is always right) in basic training. The "permission to speak" is to train discipline and to prevent chaos. After basic, it pretty much goes away except in outstanding circumstances (eg, addressing a very high ranking individual).
- Out_of_Characte 4y ago
  You have a very good moral compass for perceived injustice. But theres nothing wrong with someone in the militairy doing push ups. There IS something wrong with questioning authority because you can see campuflaged soldiers, which was probaly the training other recruits were supposed to be doing but some smartass with good colorblind eyes ruined it for them.
  - hnbad 4y ago
    Technically, soldiers absolutely are (legally) required to question authority in some cases (e.g. if they think an order is immoral, like participating in a genocide or murdering civilians or torture). In practice it provides more utility to stomp out any desire to challenge or question authority though because if a soldier spends time critically thinking about an order they're given, that's time they're not spending being highly alert or implementing that order.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    > But theres nothing wrong with someone in the militairy doing push ups. Sure, it's the "until I get tired" (emphasis mine) part that's the main surprise to me. The extremity, more than the specific exercise.
    - peteradio 4y ago
      That's just humor.
- barneygale 4y ago
  Basic training filters out anyone who would object - same reason there are so few smart people in the police.
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    Basic training filters out the stupid: those who cannot understand that there is a proper time and place to be a talkative smartass. Basic training is about learning, not showing off. Anyone who cannot check thier pride, check thier attitude, for a few weeks will not make a good soldier.
    - as1mov 4y ago
      I guess it also filters out people who would object to gleefully torturing people in the most inhumane way possible [1] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisone...
      - sandworm101 4y ago
        Yes. Basic isnt like the movies: a quick few weeks afterwhich one is a soldier. Basic is only the very start of training. More advanced stuff comes later at more trade-specific training. Basic is deinitely not the place to test potential soldiers for such problems.
  - irrational 4y ago
    Smart people don’t even make it to police basic training. If the application test shows you are intelligent, you will be rejected from joining the police. At least in the USA.

mcv 4y ago

And after pushing the ground I hope he made you the designated camouflaged-enemy spotter? This is a really cool superpower to have. I honestly had no idea that this was a thing, but I guess it makes sense; colour blind people do see colour, but they see it in a different way, which could be leveraged to spot things people with normal vision don't. I guess that also means that every squad should have one colour blind person, and camouflage should be designed to foil colour blind people too. Of course there are different kinds of colourblindness, which makes things more complicated.

Rediscover 4y ago
Yes, designated for that and night patrols (I used to have spectacular low-light vision).

ben_w 4y ago

> Drop and start pushing the ground down until I'm tired. I've never understood, and feel I have no intuition for, responses like this. What's the value added by this? Any excuse for exercise? Internalising that the sergeant is always right even when they're wrong? Or is "permission to speak" just a Hollywood affectation not really present in the military?

Rediscover 4y ago
You are correct. Any excuse for exercise and dominance (sgt is always right) in basic training. The "permission to speak" is to train discipline and to prevent chaos. After basic, it pretty much goes away except in outstanding circumstances (eg, addressing a very high ranking individual).
Out_of_Characte 4y ago
You have a very good moral compass for perceived injustice. But theres nothing wrong with someone in the militairy doing push ups. There IS something wrong with questioning authority because you can see campuflaged soldiers, which was probaly the training other recruits were supposed to be doing but some smartass with good colorblind eyes ruined it for them.
- hnbad 4y ago
  Technically, soldiers absolutely are (legally) required to question authority in some cases (e.g. if they think an order is immoral, like participating in a genocide or murdering civilians or torture). In practice it provides more utility to stomp out any desire to challenge or question authority though because if a soldier spends time critically thinking about an order they're given, that's time they're not spending being highly alert or implementing that order.
- ben_w 4y ago
  > But theres nothing wrong with someone in the militairy doing push ups. Sure, it's the "until I get tired" (emphasis mine) part that's the main surprise to me. The extremity, more than the specific exercise.
  - peteradio 4y ago
    That's just humor.
barneygale 4y ago
Basic training filters out anyone who would object - same reason there are so few smart people in the police.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  Basic training filters out the stupid: those who cannot understand that there is a proper time and place to be a talkative smartass. Basic training is about learning, not showing off. Anyone who cannot check thier pride, check thier attitude, for a few weeks will not make a good soldier.
  - as1mov 4y ago
    I guess it also filters out people who would object to gleefully torturing people in the most inhumane way possible [1] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisone...
    - sandworm101 4y ago
      Yes. Basic isnt like the movies: a quick few weeks afterwhich one is a soldier. Basic is only the very start of training. More advanced stuff comes later at more trade-specific training. Basic is deinitely not the place to test potential soldiers for such problems.
- irrational 4y ago
  Smart people don’t even make it to police basic training. If the application test shows you are intelligent, you will be rejected from joining the police. At least in the USA.