4 ms·

I'm having trouble evaluating his example (having kosher ice cream available on free ice cream days). The logic seems to be: * The company offers free ice cre

by gwd 4y ago

I'm having trouble evaluating his example (having kosher ice cream available on free ice cream days). The logic seems to be: * The company offers free ice cream on some days * Some employees, due to being Jewish, can't eat the normal ice cream; so the company offers kosher ice cream instead * The author is not Jewish, but also can't eat the normal ice cream, since he's lactose intolerant, but he can eat the kosher ice cream. So he figures that since the point of offering the kosher ice cream is to accommodate employees who can't eat the normal ice cream, it's OK for him to take some. I mean, I don't see anything wrong with that argument? But I'm having trouble constructing a similar scenario that matches my own religion, so it's difficult to be sure. Kosher just means that it's prepared in a specific way; it doesn't mean that it's supposed to be somehow more holy, or imbued with some special religious significance (as far as I know). By contrast, say that you worked for an explicitly Christian charity, which offered employees daily communion at 10am. You're an atheist, so don't want to celebrate the sacrificial death of Jesus, but you are a bit peckish at 10am -- is it OK for you to have a light snack? In that instance I'd say no -- the bread and wine are imbued with special religious significance, and so it's more respectful to abstain, even if you don't think there's anything special about them. Suppose, on the other hand, that Ramadan was occurring at a place and time when the sun set at 3:30pm; and so they provided some snacks for Muslims who'd been fasting all day. You happen to do IF, so normally have been fasting longer by that point than your Muslim colleagues (who would typically have eaten before dawn at least, while you haven't eaten anything since yesterday evening). Is it OK if you break your fast with them? My own guess is that C's issue has less to do with religion, and more to do with the idea of "cultural appropriation".

hourago 4y ago
> "cultural appropriation" I think that you are into something there. That is a term invented by the far-right to create a straw-man to attack as "cultural appropriation" negates the reality of how culture works. Should Americans stop eating spaghetti because it is Italian? Should Italians stop eating pasta because it is Asian? Should everybody stop using Arabic numerals? Should Arabs stop using Arabic numerals because are based in Indian numerals? "Cultural appropriation" is easy to discredit and to label as too much "correctness". The real question is "did you wanted to hurt another person?". Did you eat the ice cream to mock Jews? Did you wear a kimono to mock the Japanese? Did you listen Flamenco to mock Spain? The same act can be done out of admiration as much as despise it all depends on context. And context and intention is difficult to asses. So, is C's attacking a straw man to ridicule religion? Is C's offended because things that the author intended to mock Jews? What is the history with this kind of events at the company? What was what really happened as the ice cream is not what was really shared? More context would help to create a reasonable picture, from the author description I will conclude that there was not bad intention. But that is just one side of the story.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  > That is a term invented by the far-right Really? Somebody should sort out this wikipedia page then, which evidently is far-right propaganda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation > The Oxford English Dictionary's earliest citation for the phrase was a 1945 essay by Arthur E. Christy which discussed Orientalism. Amusingly, that essay turns out to be a rant about weebs opportunistically picking and choosing aspects of asian culture to suit their own needs. Maybe you're right after all.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- deadpannini 4y ago
  I wish you were right, but this is not how people commonly use the term "cultural appropriation", which typically refers to people benefitting in some way (money, status, coolness) from using elements developed by other cultures or sub-cultures. Some high profile examples: the white high school girl that wore a qipao to her prom, the widespread adoption of many hairstyles invented or popularized by black people (dreadlocks, cornrows), and Madonna bringing voguing from the gay clubs of Manhattan to MTV.
  - krapp 4y ago
    >which typically refers to people benefitting in some way (money, status, coolness) from using elements developed by other cultures or sub-cultures More specifically, when used by colonizing cultures in a way that erases the influence of, or disrespects the values of, the originating colonized culture for some material or cultural gain. The presence of an unequal power dynamic - real or implied - and inauthenticity in use is important, because the lines between cultural appropriation and cultural can sometimes be ill-defined.
- throwoutway 4y ago
  > That is a term invented by the far-right to create a straw-man to attack as "cultural appropriation" negates the reality of how culture works. This is false as other commenters noted. Don’t spread propaganda. If anything, the opposite side uses it more
senectus1 4y ago
my lack of respect for religion aside, this story seems utterly ridiculous to me. I enjoy eating vegan food in vegan restaurants, but that doesn't make me a vegan. I avoid pork, but that doesn't make me a muslim. for crying out loud.. religion is group belief nothing more. who gives a shit about the special rules these people have about their beliefs. it's their beliefs, not mine.

by gwd 4y ago

hourago 4y ago

> "cultural appropriation" I think that you are into something there. That is a term invented by the far-right to create a straw-man to attack as "cultural appropriation" negates the reality of how culture works. Should Americans stop eating spaghetti because it is Italian? Should Italians stop eating pasta because it is Asian? Should everybody stop using Arabic numerals? Should Arabs stop using Arabic numerals because are based in Indian numerals? "Cultural appropriation" is easy to discredit and to label as too much "correctness". The real question is "did you wanted to hurt another person?". Did you eat the ice cream to mock Jews? Did you wear a kimono to mock the Japanese? Did you listen Flamenco to mock Spain? The same act can be done out of admiration as much as despise it all depends on context. And context and intention is difficult to asses. So, is C's attacking a straw man to ridicule religion? Is C's offended because things that the author intended to mock Jews? What is the history with this kind of events at the company? What was what really happened as the ice cream is not what was really shared? More context would help to create a reasonable picture, from the author description I will conclude that there was not bad intention. But that is just one side of the story.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
> That is a term invented by the far-right Really? Somebody should sort out this wikipedia page then, which evidently is far-right propaganda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation > The Oxford English Dictionary's earliest citation for the phrase was a 1945 essay by Arthur E. Christy which discussed Orientalism. Amusingly, that essay turns out to be a rant about weebs opportunistically picking and choosing aspects of asian culture to suit their own needs. Maybe you're right after all.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
deadpannini 4y ago
I wish you were right, but this is not how people commonly use the term "cultural appropriation", which typically refers to people benefitting in some way (money, status, coolness) from using elements developed by other cultures or sub-cultures. Some high profile examples: the white high school girl that wore a qipao to her prom, the widespread adoption of many hairstyles invented or popularized by black people (dreadlocks, cornrows), and Madonna bringing voguing from the gay clubs of Manhattan to MTV.
- krapp 4y ago
  >which typically refers to people benefitting in some way (money, status, coolness) from using elements developed by other cultures or sub-cultures More specifically, when used by colonizing cultures in a way that erases the influence of, or disrespects the values of, the originating colonized culture for some material or cultural gain. The presence of an unequal power dynamic - real or implied - and inauthenticity in use is important, because the lines between cultural appropriation and cultural can sometimes be ill-defined.
throwoutway 4y ago
> That is a term invented by the far-right to create a straw-man to attack as "cultural appropriation" negates the reality of how culture works. This is false as other commenters noted. Don’t spread propaganda. If anything, the opposite side uses it more

senectus1 4y ago

my lack of respect for religion aside, this story seems utterly ridiculous to me. I enjoy eating vegan food in vegan restaurants, but that doesn't make me a vegan. I avoid pork, but that doesn't make me a muslim. for crying out loud.. religion is group belief nothing more. who gives a shit about the special rules these people have about their beliefs. it's their beliefs, not mine.