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> It's not denying. It's acknowledging and overcoming. Same thing. If these tendencies were good for you, your brain would not have evolved bias as something t

> It's not denying. It's acknowledging and overcoming. Same thing. If these tendencies were good for you, your brain would not have evolved bias as something that you need to "acknowledge and overcome." >Biases are by definition deviations from reality, you don't want them in this case. Who says? Why should reality be acknowledged if it doesn't help with success or survival? there are many cases where biased thinking aides in survival and success. Many people who deny reality are happier and more successful then those that don't. So who's to say acknowledging reality for the true horror that it is, is the best decision for people? For example, does Trump fully acknowledge the true objective reality that surrounds him? Is he a pretty successful person as well? No and Yes would be my personal answer to those questions. >And we live in a different world now than in the past and some things from then might not apply anymore / might be counter-productive. That's just a theory. And that theory applies to a different world that only encompasses 0.1% of human history. Your biases are the result of natural selection pressures that have existed for 99% of human history and you're trying to say that the current 0.1% of modern human history is a changed world where all evolutionary pressures no longer apply. I would venture a guess that you could be partly right. Some features no longer apply. But we don't know for sure which features, and for what reason. We only have theories. What you cannot deny is that bias exists and it has aided in our survival for millions of years. So denying its success based off of some theory of a "changed world" is not necessarily a sure fire bet. It's a gamble. When my gut and instincts tug me in biased direction I can question it, but I never ignore it. It would be unwise for me ignore a feature that has assisted the human species in survival for the majority of its existence.

jraph 4y ago
> So denying it's historical success based off of some theory That's not what I'm doing. I'm more than ready to acknowledge the fact that our history has led us to have biases and that these biases might have helped us historically, and that it might still apply today in some situations. Because we need(ed) to be able to find fast answers and we need(ed) heuristics for that. But this is not a reason to unplug our brains when we don't need to be that fast. Whatever is good for immediate survival might probably not be so good for long term decisions. Here's a riddle. In some shop, you can buy a paddle + a ball for $103. The paddle costs $100 more than the ball. How much is the ball? You might be biased to answer $3. The bias that makes you think that might help you guess this answer might lead you to the right answer most of the time. But here that's wrong, and this bias is not going to save your ass. You'd better have the right answer or you might take decisions on wrong data. Don't you want to avoid these kind of biases? What good is there in thinking that the ball is $3? We are also biased to reject people different from us. Historically, that might have helped us be cautious because people different from us might have belonged to other tribes that would fight us. But this kind of biases may make us racist. Is that what we want? Don't we want to fight this? A big chunk of the population is biased to be scared of spiders. But in places where spiders are harmless, this bias is at best worthless. Biases are tools for fast thinking. As natural as they are, they are just that: tools, with drawbacks. Use wisely and cautiously. > It's a gamble exactly. > When my gut and instincts tug me in biased direction I can question it, but I never ignore it Of course, they are a start, an input. As long as you think. But I'd say the awareness of having biases should make you trust your gut / instincts less, not more.
- deltasevennine 4y ago
  p = 101.5 Think of it this way. Biases certainly do have an obvious cost. We think it's $100 when it's obviously not. This is a cost, there's no denying that. But that same bias still exists for an evolutionary reason. It cannot be denied. Thus this bias has a benefit as well. A hidden benefit that is not clear. Maybe this benefit is no longer applicable in modern times... but we can't know for sure. It's likely such a bias is a side effect of something else. >But this kind of biases may make us racist. Depends on what you mean by racism. Being "against" anything or "for" a part of a team is part of group think. You buy into the current woke culture and that in itself is bias. But it's a good bias, it helps you. Let's think of race logically. If genetics can describe the way races look... from darker skin on Africans, smaller eyes for asians, and lighter skin for Caucasians... Then by what black magic does it suddenly cause all mental faculties and behavioral tendencies to be equal across races? There is no logic behind behavioral equality at all, yet it is culturally insensitive not to believe it. In fact if you state you don't believe it, you will get attacked. This black magic pervades our thinking and biases and we assume it to be true. If someone says black people are more likely to criminals because of inherent higher aggression, according to modern culture, that statement is bad and racist. Yet according to the logic of pure rationality the statement has enough validity to be considered for study. The statistics show higher correlation with crime and certain races, the logic of genetics don't deny it as a possibility either; the final logic is thus inescapable and the overall assumption is worth looking at. If you're extremely rational, and extremely logical. Researching for the fact that genetics can influence behavior between different races is a valid research subject. But to do this you have to be above the biased group think. And if you're above the biased group think, you're going to get attacked for being a racist. I bet this post will be flagged for even mentioning genetics and racial behavior, EVEN if it is a logical possibility. And that is a real example of how biases protect you. By being biased, by being completely unaware and buying into the current group think you're protected from attack and group self selection. By existing on a higher rational and unbiased plane you open yourself up for reactionary attacks. I likely will automatically get compared to the KKK for believing that racial differences across physical aspects and behavioral aspects are real. Even believing that "rationality and unbiased-ness is great" is buying into biased group think. Everybody thinks rationality is better, everybody thinks of themselves as rational when in reality neither statement is completely true. >Biases are tools for fast thinking. This is your "bias" talking. We aren't clear what they're all for. Some could be for fast thinking. There's no definitive scientific evidence for what all our biases for, so logically you're being biased for making such an assumption. It's typical. People have biases that make them try to simplify the world around them. There's huge complexity here but you simplified it into a singular talking point: Biases are just things for fast thinking. Another biased talking point: Racism is bad. My guess is that some biases are for fast thinking. But not all. There's a potpourri of thousands of reasons for each of the multitudes of biases we have. Personally, to be truly unbiased, to be truly emotionally uninvested into anything is a curse. It's the fruit of knowledge. You don't want it at all. Once you eat that fruit, there's no going back.

jraph 4y ago

> So denying it's historical success based off of some theory That's not what I'm doing. I'm more than ready to acknowledge the fact that our history has led us to have biases and that these biases might have helped us historically, and that it might still apply today in some situations. Because we need(ed) to be able to find fast answers and we need(ed) heuristics for that. But this is not a reason to unplug our brains when we don't need to be that fast. Whatever is good for immediate survival might probably not be so good for long term decisions. Here's a riddle. In some shop, you can buy a paddle + a ball for $103. The paddle costs $100 more than the ball. How much is the ball? You might be biased to answer $3. The bias that makes you think that might help you guess this answer might lead you to the right answer most of the time. But here that's wrong, and this bias is not going to save your ass. You'd better have the right answer or you might take decisions on wrong data. Don't you want to avoid these kind of biases? What good is there in thinking that the ball is $3? We are also biased to reject people different from us. Historically, that might have helped us be cautious because people different from us might have belonged to other tribes that would fight us. But this kind of biases may make us racist. Is that what we want? Don't we want to fight this? A big chunk of the population is biased to be scared of spiders. But in places where spiders are harmless, this bias is at best worthless. Biases are tools for fast thinking. As natural as they are, they are just that: tools, with drawbacks. Use wisely and cautiously. > It's a gamble exactly. > When my gut and instincts tug me in biased direction I can question it, but I never ignore it Of course, they are a start, an input. As long as you think. But I'd say the awareness of having biases should make you trust your gut / instincts less, not more.

deltasevennine 4y ago
p = 101.5 Think of it this way. Biases certainly do have an obvious cost. We think it's $100 when it's obviously not. This is a cost, there's no denying that. But that same bias still exists for an evolutionary reason. It cannot be denied. Thus this bias has a benefit as well. A hidden benefit that is not clear. Maybe this benefit is no longer applicable in modern times... but we can't know for sure. It's likely such a bias is a side effect of something else. >But this kind of biases may make us racist. Depends on what you mean by racism. Being "against" anything or "for" a part of a team is part of group think. You buy into the current woke culture and that in itself is bias. But it's a good bias, it helps you. Let's think of race logically. If genetics can describe the way races look... from darker skin on Africans, smaller eyes for asians, and lighter skin for Caucasians... Then by what black magic does it suddenly cause all mental faculties and behavioral tendencies to be equal across races? There is no logic behind behavioral equality at all, yet it is culturally insensitive not to believe it. In fact if you state you don't believe it, you will get attacked. This black magic pervades our thinking and biases and we assume it to be true. If someone says black people are more likely to criminals because of inherent higher aggression, according to modern culture, that statement is bad and racist. Yet according to the logic of pure rationality the statement has enough validity to be considered for study. The statistics show higher correlation with crime and certain races, the logic of genetics don't deny it as a possibility either; the final logic is thus inescapable and the overall assumption is worth looking at. If you're extremely rational, and extremely logical. Researching for the fact that genetics can influence behavior between different races is a valid research subject. But to do this you have to be above the biased group think. And if you're above the biased group think, you're going to get attacked for being a racist. I bet this post will be flagged for even mentioning genetics and racial behavior, EVEN if it is a logical possibility. And that is a real example of how biases protect you. By being biased, by being completely unaware and buying into the current group think you're protected from attack and group self selection. By existing on a higher rational and unbiased plane you open yourself up for reactionary attacks. I likely will automatically get compared to the KKK for believing that racial differences across physical aspects and behavioral aspects are real. Even believing that "rationality and unbiased-ness is great" is buying into biased group think. Everybody thinks rationality is better, everybody thinks of themselves as rational when in reality neither statement is completely true. >Biases are tools for fast thinking. This is your "bias" talking. We aren't clear what they're all for. Some could be for fast thinking. There's no definitive scientific evidence for what all our biases for, so logically you're being biased for making such an assumption. It's typical. People have biases that make them try to simplify the world around them. There's huge complexity here but you simplified it into a singular talking point: Biases are just things for fast thinking. Another biased talking point: Racism is bad. My guess is that some biases are for fast thinking. But not all. There's a potpourri of thousands of reasons for each of the multitudes of biases we have. Personally, to be truly unbiased, to be truly emotionally uninvested into anything is a curse. It's the fruit of knowledge. You don't want it at all. Once you eat that fruit, there's no going back.