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> Even conscientious cyclists who call “on your left” or whatever routinely underestimate the necessary reaction time and overestimate how far their voice will

> Even conscientious cyclists who call “on your left” or whatever routinely underestimate the necessary reaction time and overestimate how far their voice will carry. You are absolutely right. As a cyclist there isn’t really any good way to reliably avoid startling a pedestrian in a mixed environment. Even if you do the even more conscientious thing and you slow all the way down to match speed with them, and then “walk” with their speed for seconds and softly anounce your presence with an “excuse me” there are still some who get startled. I have had people act after all of that as if I tried to murder them. And I totally understand them! From their perspective they were all alone and “all of a sudden” a cyclist poped into existence behind them. And in their subjective reality they have just avoided a collision by jumping out of the way of some “crazy speeding biker”, but that biker only exists in their imagination. An outside observer would see a bike slowly catching up and matching speed with them, with zero chance of collision no matter what they might do, but that is not what they seem to experience.

toast0 4y ago
> As a cyclist there isn’t really any good way to reliably avoid startling a pedestrian in a mixed environment. A loud freewheel is probably as close as it gets. I'd guess a loud freehub could work too, but I like my bikes old, so no freehubs. Maybe some sort of jetsons noise generator.
- abecedarius 4y ago
  Some people are deaf or hard of hearing. In my experience, though, the worst sidewalk speeders are on skateboards or scooters. (I'm not saying you shouldn't skate; rather, when there was a close call or a collision, that's what they were barreling by on.)
- Gud 4y ago
  Where do you guys live? Here in Sweden we have a small bell on the steering you ring when you want to pass. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&q=cykel+ringklocka&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2i8aujv35AhXNX_EDHT0gAKwQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=390&bih=664&dpr=3 https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_b...
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    This sadly has become less useful with the increase in headphone usage by pedestrians.
    - danielbln 4y ago
      In that case a loud freewheel wouldn't do much either though.
      - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        Yep, anything audio, like a whistle, shouting "ahoy there!", has less use these days and with tiny airpods being a thing now, it's not even possible to guess from a distance if someone is listening to music. Possibly some kind of laser beam thing that sweeps the ground in front of you might work?
        darrenf 4y ago
        > Possibly some kind of laser beam thing that sweeps the ground in front of you might work? That's what the TFL bikes in London do[0]: "The Blaze Laserlight is fixed to the cycle frame and projects a green cycle-shaped image onto the ground around 6 metres ahead of the cycle." [0] https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/santander-cycles/blaze-laserlights https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/santander-cycles/blaze-lase...
        ghaff 4y ago
        I don't really get the AirPod proliferation. Even if I'm in the woods by myself, much less on a busy path, I can't stand the disconnection from my environment.
        usrusr 4y ago
        Do you drive a lot? Drivers are very used to the audio disconnect. Before I did my licence I was a firm believer in "no earbuds on the road", but after a few driving lessons I got so used to taking in the traffic situation with eyes only that I quickly converted to an earbuds all the time cyclist. A few years later I stopped driving so much and my cycling reverted to ears-always-open without me even noticing.
- bwb 4y ago
  a bell as well, but it sometimes scares the crap out of people.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
syntheweave 4y ago
I used to encounter this back when I would ride kick scooters on sidewalks. Startling is instinctual and the verbalization of offense at one's existence(which often follows DARVO dynamics) happens in the process of catching up. But I've had success not getting negativity with urban biking more recently. I rarely try to overtake pedestrians directly when off marked multiuse paths. Instead I stop pedaling and walk the bike while saying nothing. The persistent tick-tick noise activates their awareness after a few seconds, but I have to wait for a sign, and sometimes none appears so I will walk the whole block and overtake at the intersection. Regardless, they like that noise much more than a voice or a bell, because it's a bike that isn't imminently bearing down on them, so it primes their expectations. This is facilitated by defaulting to the lowest gear, setting the saddle position low, and letting yourself cruise slow most of the time. Everyone, whether car, bike, or pedestrian, wants to default to "never stop, always be moving". But sometimes you have to explicitly yield and the adjustments away from efficient road cycling help with doing so.
P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
> As a cyclist there isn’t really any good way to reliably avoid startling a pedestrian in a mixed environment. Why couldn't you just ask (or require) bicyclists to use bells or horns of some sort? Pedestrians would get used to the noise after a while.
- consp 4y ago
  As an example; That has worked fine for at least a century since bells were introduced as a requirement on bicycles in the 1900's around here (yes that is no typo). Pedestrians are usually annoyed but do notices the cyclist and that's what you want to achieve.
- usrusr 4y ago
  Bells have zero effect on pedestrians. Bells are required where I live and I repeat that experiment a lot.
- krisoft 4y ago
  I don’t understand the facination with the bell. In what way would it help with the situation as described? Do you think it would startle the pedestrians less than the human voice?
usrusr 4y ago
The least bad way seems to be giving them plenty of opportunity to "notice the cyclist on their own". "Look how polite I am" vs "how dare they order me aside!" My usual approach sequence is bell first (very early/far, only to soothe my nerves when the walker later starts that "should have used a bell!" tirade - sometimes a dog hears and understands that early bell and notifies its human) then generous freehub noise (first stage of "notice on their own"), then more bell and when I'm close, already effectively at walking speed, a short burst of blocking the rear brake. Unsurprisingly, people who appeared completely deaf to the bell right behind them a second earlier seem to hear even the tiniest scratch of a tire loud and clear...

toast0 4y ago

> As a cyclist there isn’t really any good way to reliably avoid startling a pedestrian in a mixed environment. A loud freewheel is probably as close as it gets. I'd guess a loud freehub could work too, but I like my bikes old, so no freehubs. Maybe some sort of jetsons noise generator.

abecedarius 4y ago
Some people are deaf or hard of hearing. In my experience, though, the worst sidewalk speeders are on skateboards or scooters. (I'm not saying you shouldn't skate; rather, when there was a close call or a collision, that's what they were barreling by on.)
Gud 4y ago
Where do you guys live? Here in Sweden we have a small bell on the steering you ring when you want to pass. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&q=cykel+ringklocka&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2i8aujv35AhXNX_EDHT0gAKwQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=390&bih=664&dpr=3 https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_b...
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  This sadly has become less useful with the increase in headphone usage by pedestrians.
  - danielbln 4y ago
    In that case a loud freewheel wouldn't do much either though.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      Yep, anything audio, like a whistle, shouting "ahoy there!", has less use these days and with tiny airpods being a thing now, it's not even possible to guess from a distance if someone is listening to music. Possibly some kind of laser beam thing that sweeps the ground in front of you might work?
      - darrenf 4y ago
        > Possibly some kind of laser beam thing that sweeps the ground in front of you might work? That's what the TFL bikes in London do[0]: "The Blaze Laserlight is fixed to the cycle frame and projects a green cycle-shaped image onto the ground around 6 metres ahead of the cycle." [0] https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/santander-cycles/blaze-laserlights https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/santander-cycles/blaze-lase...
      - ghaff 4y ago
        I don't really get the AirPod proliferation. Even if I'm in the woods by myself, much less on a busy path, I can't stand the disconnection from my environment.
        usrusr 4y ago
        Do you drive a lot? Drivers are very used to the audio disconnect. Before I did my licence I was a firm believer in "no earbuds on the road", but after a few driving lessons I got so used to taking in the traffic situation with eyes only that I quickly converted to an earbuds all the time cyclist. A few years later I stopped driving so much and my cycling reverted to ears-always-open without me even noticing.
bwb 4y ago
a bell as well, but it sometimes scares the crap out of people.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

syntheweave 4y ago

I used to encounter this back when I would ride kick scooters on sidewalks. Startling is instinctual and the verbalization of offense at one's existence(which often follows DARVO dynamics) happens in the process of catching up. But I've had success not getting negativity with urban biking more recently. I rarely try to overtake pedestrians directly when off marked multiuse paths. Instead I stop pedaling and walk the bike while saying nothing. The persistent tick-tick noise activates their awareness after a few seconds, but I have to wait for a sign, and sometimes none appears so I will walk the whole block and overtake at the intersection. Regardless, they like that noise much more than a voice or a bell, because it's a bike that isn't imminently bearing down on them, so it primes their expectations. This is facilitated by defaulting to the lowest gear, setting the saddle position low, and letting yourself cruise slow most of the time. Everyone, whether car, bike, or pedestrian, wants to default to "never stop, always be moving". But sometimes you have to explicitly yield and the adjustments away from efficient road cycling help with doing so.

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago

> As a cyclist there isn’t really any good way to reliably avoid startling a pedestrian in a mixed environment. Why couldn't you just ask (or require) bicyclists to use bells or horns of some sort? Pedestrians would get used to the noise after a while.

consp 4y ago
As an example; That has worked fine for at least a century since bells were introduced as a requirement on bicycles in the 1900's around here (yes that is no typo). Pedestrians are usually annoyed but do notices the cyclist and that's what you want to achieve.
usrusr 4y ago
Bells have zero effect on pedestrians. Bells are required where I live and I repeat that experiment a lot.
krisoft 4y ago
I don’t understand the facination with the bell. In what way would it help with the situation as described? Do you think it would startle the pedestrians less than the human voice?

usrusr 4y ago

The least bad way seems to be giving them plenty of opportunity to "notice the cyclist on their own". "Look how polite I am" vs "how dare they order me aside!" My usual approach sequence is bell first (very early/far, only to soothe my nerves when the walker later starts that "should have used a bell!" tirade - sometimes a dog hears and understands that early bell and notifies its human) then generous freehub noise (first stage of "notice on their own"), then more bell and when I'm close, already effectively at walking speed, a short burst of blocking the rear brake. Unsurprisingly, people who appeared completely deaf to the bell right behind them a second earlier seem to hear even the tiniest scratch of a tire loud and clear...