4 ms·

> EVs are much heavier than their equivalent ICE vehicles. This is not true. The Tesla Model 3 is the same weight as a BMW 3 series (~3,600-4,100lbs depending

by chroma 4y ago

> EVs are much heavier than their equivalent ICE vehicles. This is not true. The Tesla Model 3 is the same weight as a BMW 3 series (~3,600-4,100lbs depending on trim level). Yes EVs carry a half ton of batteries, but they get rid of the engine block, transmission, starter motor, fuel tank, alternator, exhaust system, and many other parts. Also many combustion vehicles made today are hybrids, meaning they also carry batteries and large electric motors (though not as large as a pure EV).

benj111 4y ago
I thought EVs still had a 12v battery. Is that not charged via an alternator? I admit it seems more sensible to charge it direct from the battery pack, but then it seems more sensible to me to do away with the 12v battery all together. So if you're going to have a 12v battery it may aswell be completely independent of the main battery pack.
- oyashirochama 4y ago
  They do but it is typically smaller or even a LiFe battery which is nearly as light as lithium but has most of the high crank and 12v nominal application power needs, with larger charge windows and equal or higher discharge cycles.
  - benj111 4y ago
    The parent was talking about saving the weight of the alternator. That's what I was asking about rather than the battery. Why would you need high crank for an ev???
- audunw 4y ago
  > Is that not charged via an alternator? No, it's generally directly from main battery pack when the car is turned on, or when the car is charging. I would guses some models can also charge it now and then when the car is off, since some models are always connected to a cellular network. > but then it seems more sensible to me to do away with the 12v battery all together. No, no, no.. You need 12V when the car is off (for talking to key fob at the very least), but you probably don't want a DC-DC converter running from the main battery all the time. If you have trouble getting power from the main battery, it'll be hard to diagnose when none of the electronics work anymore. Having a redundant battery is a very good idea. It's also a redundancy in case of emergency (some cars have buttons you can press to call emergency services). I seem to remember Elon talking about removing it (of course), but they haven't yet, and I doubt they ever will.
  - benj111 4y ago
    >but you probably don't want a DC-DC converter running from the main battery all the time. If you have trouble getting power from the main battery, it'll be hard to diagnose. I don't get this. If the converter stops working the 12v battery dies and your car stops working. I don't get why it would be easier to diagnose if it only charges when on. I assume you're talking about the converter charging the 12v battery? Even if you aren't it would still be simple enough to have some 12v points to supply external power. Further is it redundancy or doubling the chances of failure? You now have a 12v charger that could stop working, and a 12v battery that could stop working. Both of those break the car. If the main battery goes that's basically bricking the car and you aren't going anywhere anyway
  - aperson_hello 4y ago
    Hyundai already removed it (kind of) from some of their hybrid ICE cars! I say kind of because they just combined it with the traction battery and designed it to last the life of the car (using lithium instead of lead acid).
Jasp3r 4y ago
You're comparing a single EV that's light for it's class with a single gas car that's heavy for it's class. Why not compare the 3 series (1800kg) with the electric 3 series (2200kg)? Or compare the Corsa (1094kg) with the electric Corsa-e (1455kg)
- formerly_proven 4y ago
  Both of your comparisons suffer from the fact that neither of those BEVs are built on a platform designed from the ground up for a BEV, but rather an ICE platform with a battery shoe-horned into it.
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  Ok. Nissan Juke - 3000 lbs Honda Civic - 3000 lbs Nissan Leaf - 3300-3400 lbs Honda e - 3400 lbs Chevy Bolt - 3600 lbs Volkswagen ID.3 - 4000+ lbs

by chroma 4y ago

benj111 4y ago

I thought EVs still had a 12v battery. Is that not charged via an alternator? I admit it seems more sensible to charge it direct from the battery pack, but then it seems more sensible to me to do away with the 12v battery all together. So if you're going to have a 12v battery it may aswell be completely independent of the main battery pack.

oyashirochama 4y ago
They do but it is typically smaller or even a LiFe battery which is nearly as light as lithium but has most of the high crank and 12v nominal application power needs, with larger charge windows and equal or higher discharge cycles.
- benj111 4y ago
  The parent was talking about saving the weight of the alternator. That's what I was asking about rather than the battery. Why would you need high crank for an ev???
audunw 4y ago
> Is that not charged via an alternator? No, it's generally directly from main battery pack when the car is turned on, or when the car is charging. I would guses some models can also charge it now and then when the car is off, since some models are always connected to a cellular network. > but then it seems more sensible to me to do away with the 12v battery all together. No, no, no.. You need 12V when the car is off (for talking to key fob at the very least), but you probably don't want a DC-DC converter running from the main battery all the time. If you have trouble getting power from the main battery, it'll be hard to diagnose when none of the electronics work anymore. Having a redundant battery is a very good idea. It's also a redundancy in case of emergency (some cars have buttons you can press to call emergency services). I seem to remember Elon talking about removing it (of course), but they haven't yet, and I doubt they ever will.
- benj111 4y ago
  >but you probably don't want a DC-DC converter running from the main battery all the time. If you have trouble getting power from the main battery, it'll be hard to diagnose. I don't get this. If the converter stops working the 12v battery dies and your car stops working. I don't get why it would be easier to diagnose if it only charges when on. I assume you're talking about the converter charging the 12v battery? Even if you aren't it would still be simple enough to have some 12v points to supply external power. Further is it redundancy or doubling the chances of failure? You now have a 12v charger that could stop working, and a 12v battery that could stop working. Both of those break the car. If the main battery goes that's basically bricking the car and you aren't going anywhere anyway
- aperson_hello 4y ago
  Hyundai already removed it (kind of) from some of their hybrid ICE cars! I say kind of because they just combined it with the traction battery and designed it to last the life of the car (using lithium instead of lead acid).

Jasp3r 4y ago

You're comparing a single EV that's light for it's class with a single gas car that's heavy for it's class. Why not compare the 3 series (1800kg) with the electric 3 series (2200kg)? Or compare the Corsa (1094kg) with the electric Corsa-e (1455kg)

formerly_proven 4y ago
Both of your comparisons suffer from the fact that neither of those BEVs are built on a platform designed from the ground up for a BEV, but rather an ICE platform with a battery shoe-horned into it.
inferiorhuman 4y ago
Ok. Nissan Juke - 3000 lbs Honda Civic - 3000 lbs Nissan Leaf - 3300-3400 lbs Honda e - 3400 lbs Chevy Bolt - 3600 lbs Volkswagen ID.3 - 4000+ lbs