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> Source: we are a Canadian company, and hire from everywhere but the US. I don't follow. This isn't true at all in my experience, plenty of companies in Canad

> Source: we are a Canadian company, and hire from everywhere but the US. I don't follow. This isn't true at all in my experience, plenty of companies in Canada and the US hire across Canada and the US. It's practically the norm. If you work for a Canadian company that doesn't hire in the US then you're comically underpaid. Wages are converging very fast. Many companies are paying parity and frankly folks are selling themselves short if they don't fight for parity. (If you're not talking about software development, then ignore me)

RestlessMind 4y ago
> This isn't true at all in my experience, plenty of companies in Canada and the US hire across Canada and the US. It's practically the norm. Probably only after they get to a certain scale and cannot find more talent in Canada? When did Shopify start hiring in the US - right from the beginning?
- xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
  No? If I started a company in Canada tomorrow, why would I reduce my talent pool and not look at the US? Most startups are eschewing offices in an obvious move for cash-strapped businesses. If you're hiring remote then borders should be a mild nuisance at worst, and at best a force multiplier. Example: Show me a startup in the YC job board based in Canada (there are many these days) that is hiring locally only for software engineers.
- herbst 4y ago
  Shopify did hire talent from Europe years ago. I would see them on every bigger networking event with glossy flyers about how they will pay for everything if you want to move and work there.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    Europe is not equivalent to the US. Granted, it's outside Canada, but it's probably even cheaper than Canada.
- throw123123123 4y ago
  Shopify does not pay well
- spullara 4y ago
  Shopify should not be considered a tech company. Ecommerce in general isn't a technology problem. Just to give you an example of how comically small fintech is here is a global example: Visa processes around 1,700 transactions per second.
derefr 4y ago
(Context clarification: I'm not an employee of a Canadian tech company; I'm a cofounder + major shareholder of one. I'm looking at this from the hiring side, not the being-hired side.) Wages might be "converging" to the same numeric value — CAD$N in Canada vs USD$N in the US — but those are, and have always been, very different amounts of money. The two countries are still nowhere near the sort of economic equilibrium-state where Canadian companies are paying the prevailing US salary exchanged into Canadian dollars. Also, there are a number of costs related to hiring US remote workers (as a company headquartered outside the US) that don't apply to hiring remote workers in most other countries. You're expected to provide some kind of private insurance plan, for example. Take-home pay may be converging, but the cost to the company of hiring a salaried US employee — or even a US contractor, as long as you care about being equitable / not building resentment when your employees talk amongst themselves about relative total compensation — is still higher than the cost to the company of hiring elsewhere. And to be clear, the prevailing wage isn't even that relevant, as we're not really talking about "hiring the median American" vs "hiring the median [person living somewhere else]." We're talking about hiring people who apply for — and are considered top candidates for — remote tech jobs, among a global candidate pool. In the US, these people mostly happen to live in HCOL areas (like the Bay Area); which means their BATNA is to be paid far more than the US median wage for an SWE, because that's what the companies in HCOL areas have to offer to retain local talent there. To hire these people, you can't just offer "the going rate"; you have to offer FAANG money.
- xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
  > The two countries are still nowhere near the sort of economic equilibrium-state where Canadian companies are paying the prevailing US salary exchanged into Canadian dollars. You may be surprised to learn that this is quickly changing. > Take-home pay may be converging, but the cost to the company of hiring a salaried US employee — or even a US contractor, as long as you care about being equitable / not building resentment when your employees talk amongst themselves about relative total compensation — is still higher than the cost to the company of hiring elsewhere. This is not true in my experience. It's slightly cheaper to hire in the US than other markets, if you do not yet have any presence in those markets. It's a wash long term. Some firms offset the extra costs for US workers benefits by simply paying others more. > To hire these people, you can't just offer "the going rate"; you have to offer FAANG money. In the ballpark, but yes. The gap is rapidly closing. Plenty of seed or series As are paying near FAANG rates.

RestlessMind 4y ago

> This isn't true at all in my experience, plenty of companies in Canada and the US hire across Canada and the US. It's practically the norm. Probably only after they get to a certain scale and cannot find more talent in Canada? When did Shopify start hiring in the US - right from the beginning?

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
No? If I started a company in Canada tomorrow, why would I reduce my talent pool and not look at the US? Most startups are eschewing offices in an obvious move for cash-strapped businesses. If you're hiring remote then borders should be a mild nuisance at worst, and at best a force multiplier. Example: Show me a startup in the YC job board based in Canada (there are many these days) that is hiring locally only for software engineers.
herbst 4y ago
Shopify did hire talent from Europe years ago. I would see them on every bigger networking event with glossy flyers about how they will pay for everything if you want to move and work there.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  Europe is not equivalent to the US. Granted, it's outside Canada, but it's probably even cheaper than Canada.
throw123123123 4y ago
Shopify does not pay well
spullara 4y ago
Shopify should not be considered a tech company. Ecommerce in general isn't a technology problem. Just to give you an example of how comically small fintech is here is a global example: Visa processes around 1,700 transactions per second.

derefr 4y ago

(Context clarification: I'm not an employee of a Canadian tech company; I'm a cofounder + major shareholder of one. I'm looking at this from the hiring side, not the being-hired side.) Wages might be "converging" to the same numeric value — CAD$N in Canada vs USD$N in the US — but those are, and have always been, very different amounts of money. The two countries are still nowhere near the sort of economic equilibrium-state where Canadian companies are paying the prevailing US salary exchanged into Canadian dollars. Also, there are a number of costs related to hiring US remote workers (as a company headquartered outside the US) that don't apply to hiring remote workers in most other countries. You're expected to provide some kind of private insurance plan, for example. Take-home pay may be converging, but the cost to the company of hiring a salaried US employee — or even a US contractor, as long as you care about being equitable / not building resentment when your employees talk amongst themselves about relative total compensation — is still higher than the cost to the company of hiring elsewhere. And to be clear, the prevailing wage isn't even that relevant, as we're not really talking about "hiring the median American" vs "hiring the median [person living somewhere else]." We're talking about hiring people who apply for — and are considered top candidates for — remote tech jobs, among a global candidate pool. In the US, these people mostly happen to live in HCOL areas (like the Bay Area); which means their BATNA is to be paid far more than the US median wage for an SWE, because that's what the companies in HCOL areas have to offer to retain local talent there. To hire these people, you can't just offer "the going rate"; you have to offer FAANG money.

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
> The two countries are still nowhere near the sort of economic equilibrium-state where Canadian companies are paying the prevailing US salary exchanged into Canadian dollars. You may be surprised to learn that this is quickly changing. > Take-home pay may be converging, but the cost to the company of hiring a salaried US employee — or even a US contractor, as long as you care about being equitable / not building resentment when your employees talk amongst themselves about relative total compensation — is still higher than the cost to the company of hiring elsewhere. This is not true in my experience. It's slightly cheaper to hire in the US than other markets, if you do not yet have any presence in those markets. It's a wash long term. Some firms offset the extra costs for US workers benefits by simply paying others more. > To hire these people, you can't just offer "the going rate"; you have to offer FAANG money. In the ballpark, but yes. The gap is rapidly closing. Plenty of seed or series As are paying near FAANG rates.