4 ms·

I'm assuming this is focused on the USA specifically? In Australia and New Zealand most engineering jobs are 4 weeks notice if you've worked there at least a y

I'm assuming this is focused on the USA specifically? In Australia and New Zealand most engineering jobs are 4 weeks notice if you've worked there at least a year or two. I've heard that non-compete clauses don't really hold up here either (not that I've even seen one either). Not sure what an "ESSP" is?

kube-system 4y ago
Yes, it’s US centric, but the US does not require two weeks notice. It is a voluntary courtesy. Some people give more or less depending on the circumstances. Employment in the US is largely at-will, and can be terminated by either party at any time.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  How did we end up with a two weeks honor system that is only expected from one side?
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Because voluntarily departures are generally cordial. There is effectively no overlap between severely disgruntled employees and those who give their employer a courteous heads up about their departure. Whereas involuntary termination is never a happy circumstance.
  - sundaeofshock 4y ago
    Simple power dynamics. The employee has a lot more to loose than the employer a when a person’s employment ends.
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      Yes when you’re one person individually up against a highly organized institution - easy to see why employers prefer the organizing to be one sided
  - kortilla 4y ago
    Severance packages are common in tech for layoffs. That is effectively many weeks notice, you just don’t have to work during them which is nicer. If you’re being fired for underperforming, that’s usually many weeks in the making and you’re given many written notices (HR departments like really clear paper trails). The only times I hear of where termination is sudden without notice or compensation is when people get fired for something egregious or the company literally ran out of money (startups can be rough). Caveat: all of the above applies to the tech industry. I understand it can be much worse for employees in other industries.
    - 13of40 4y ago
      One of my previous companies (in the US) had a policy of escorting you to the door immediately if you told them you were leaving for a competitor. In practice, we usually took them out to lunch, had a laugh about it, and all but one of us came back to the office.
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      Yea sorry wasn’t only talking about our industry’s extremely cushy dev & pmc jobs
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
tialaramex 4y ago
I think the minimum term I've had in the last maybe 20 years (in the UK) was 90 days.
- sio8ohPi 4y ago
  By convention or by contract? Do new employers generally accept that new hires won't be available to start for 90 days, or does one only start the job search after giving notice to your current employer?
  - tialaramex 4y ago
    By contract. The law requires one week after one month employment, convention is probably about four weeks, although varies by sector and role. I think it is legally required to be symmetrical (ie they can't say you must give six months notice but we can fire you in a week), certainly I've never seen an asymmetrical notice period. I've never looked for serious work other than as a programmer, so it may just be this sector, but yes, it's completely normal that hires can't start immediately. Ninety days is longer than most, but it's not extraordinary. People we've hired into our team typically needed maybe six weeks ? Sometimes they want an actual physical break, like four weeks notice to their previous employer, spend a week on a beach somewhere, then come to the new job. Particularly if you're poaching people you know the term because you presumably asked them. It is legal for both employee and employer to offer other terms when leaving, but neither has a right to force the other. One thing that often happens when this is amicable is both agree to shuffle vacation time around, so e.g. say I have 8 days paid leave left, and I'm on 90 day terms, we look at the calendar, maybe the employer agrees we can shove all that paid leave at the end, round a bit and my last working day is here, 75 days, not 90 days. They could force that not to happen, but we're leaving on friendly terms. Of course now I don't have any real leave, but if a new employer wants me ASAP that might be a reasonable trade to start a couple of weeks sooner (note in this scenario I'm getting paid for 90 days still, but money is poor compensation for being tired).
    - sio8ohPi 4y ago
      Thanks.
linux2647 4y ago
An ESPP is a stock purchasing program that allows employees to buy company stock at a discount
gizmo385 4y ago
“ESPP” is an Employee Stock Purchase Plan and is a program that allows employees to purchase company stock, usually at a guaranteed discount
endtime 4y ago
ESPP is an employee share purchasing plan, which is a way to commit to buying shares in the company at a discounted rate over time. My employer has an attractive plan that is pretty much free money with extremely limited downside risk; there's a federally-imposed $25k/year cap, which also limits the upside, but it's well worth a couple clicks.
robocat 4y ago
In New Zealand an employee is usually contractually required to give notice, and there is a default of “fair and reasonable” notice. However I would guess it is very unusual for an employee to be significantly penalised if they do not work their notice period. Even though an employer may legally be able to seek damages (not exceeding employee replacement costs), that doesn’t look common to me. Employment in New Zealand is mostly a moral, reputation, and trust based system. A company cannot withhold an employees pay or holiday pay. An employee contract can override that default so that a company can withhold pay. However the employee can override the contract by simply writing a letter to the employer. https://www.findlaw.co.nz/articles/4336/what-happens-if-i-dont-give-notice-when-i-resign.aspx https://www.findlaw.co.nz/articles/4336/what-happens-if-i-do... https://communitytoolkit.org.nz/staff-and-volunteers/termination-of-employment/ https://communitytoolkit.org.nz/staff-and-volunteers/termina... Disclaimer: I have no special knowledge of this area, it is just a summary from a quick googling.
- Mandatum 4y ago
  I have never heard of an employee being penalised for giving zero notice in New Zealand unless they weren't an employee, but a contractor with a business partnership relationship.

kube-system 4y ago

Yes, it’s US centric, but the US does not require two weeks notice. It is a voluntary courtesy. Some people give more or less depending on the circumstances. Employment in the US is largely at-will, and can be terminated by either party at any time.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
How did we end up with a two weeks honor system that is only expected from one side?
- kube-system 4y ago
  Because voluntarily departures are generally cordial. There is effectively no overlap between severely disgruntled employees and those who give their employer a courteous heads up about their departure. Whereas involuntary termination is never a happy circumstance.
- sundaeofshock 4y ago
  Simple power dynamics. The employee has a lot more to loose than the employer a when a person’s employment ends.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    Yes when you’re one person individually up against a highly organized institution - easy to see why employers prefer the organizing to be one sided
- kortilla 4y ago
  Severance packages are common in tech for layoffs. That is effectively many weeks notice, you just don’t have to work during them which is nicer. If you’re being fired for underperforming, that’s usually many weeks in the making and you’re given many written notices (HR departments like really clear paper trails). The only times I hear of where termination is sudden without notice or compensation is when people get fired for something egregious or the company literally ran out of money (startups can be rough). Caveat: all of the above applies to the tech industry. I understand it can be much worse for employees in other industries.
  - 13of40 4y ago
    One of my previous companies (in the US) had a policy of escorting you to the door immediately if you told them you were leaving for a competitor. In practice, we usually took them out to lunch, had a laugh about it, and all but one of us came back to the office.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    Yea sorry wasn’t only talking about our industry’s extremely cushy dev & pmc jobs
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

tialaramex 4y ago

I think the minimum term I've had in the last maybe 20 years (in the UK) was 90 days.

sio8ohPi 4y ago
By convention or by contract? Do new employers generally accept that new hires won't be available to start for 90 days, or does one only start the job search after giving notice to your current employer?
- tialaramex 4y ago
  By contract. The law requires one week after one month employment, convention is probably about four weeks, although varies by sector and role. I think it is legally required to be symmetrical (ie they can't say you must give six months notice but we can fire you in a week), certainly I've never seen an asymmetrical notice period. I've never looked for serious work other than as a programmer, so it may just be this sector, but yes, it's completely normal that hires can't start immediately. Ninety days is longer than most, but it's not extraordinary. People we've hired into our team typically needed maybe six weeks ? Sometimes they want an actual physical break, like four weeks notice to their previous employer, spend a week on a beach somewhere, then come to the new job. Particularly if you're poaching people you know the term because you presumably asked them. It is legal for both employee and employer to offer other terms when leaving, but neither has a right to force the other. One thing that often happens when this is amicable is both agree to shuffle vacation time around, so e.g. say I have 8 days paid leave left, and I'm on 90 day terms, we look at the calendar, maybe the employer agrees we can shove all that paid leave at the end, round a bit and my last working day is here, 75 days, not 90 days. They could force that not to happen, but we're leaving on friendly terms. Of course now I don't have any real leave, but if a new employer wants me ASAP that might be a reasonable trade to start a couple of weeks sooner (note in this scenario I'm getting paid for 90 days still, but money is poor compensation for being tired).
  - sio8ohPi 4y ago
    Thanks.

linux2647 4y ago

An ESPP is a stock purchasing program that allows employees to buy company stock at a discount

gizmo385 4y ago

“ESPP” is an Employee Stock Purchase Plan and is a program that allows employees to purchase company stock, usually at a guaranteed discount

endtime 4y ago

ESPP is an employee share purchasing plan, which is a way to commit to buying shares in the company at a discounted rate over time. My employer has an attractive plan that is pretty much free money with extremely limited downside risk; there's a federally-imposed $25k/year cap, which also limits the upside, but it's well worth a couple clicks.

robocat 4y ago

In New Zealand an employee is usually contractually required to give notice, and there is a default of “fair and reasonable” notice. However I would guess it is very unusual for an employee to be significantly penalised if they do not work their notice period. Even though an employer may legally be able to seek damages (not exceeding employee replacement costs), that doesn’t look common to me. Employment in New Zealand is mostly a moral, reputation, and trust based system. A company cannot withhold an employees pay or holiday pay. An employee contract can override that default so that a company can withhold pay. However the employee can override the contract by simply writing a letter to the employer. https://www.findlaw.co.nz/articles/4336/what-happens-if-i-dont-give-notice-when-i-resign.aspx https://www.findlaw.co.nz/articles/4336/what-happens-if-i-do... https://communitytoolkit.org.nz/staff-and-volunteers/termination-of-employment/ https://communitytoolkit.org.nz/staff-and-volunteers/termina... Disclaimer: I have no special knowledge of this area, it is just a summary from a quick googling.

Mandatum 4y ago
I have never heard of an employee being penalised for giving zero notice in New Zealand unless they weren't an employee, but a contractor with a business partnership relationship.