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But that alfalfa also goes to feed cows, which feed humans. All that’s grown in CA supports humans. You could get all “America first” with it, which has some m

But that alfalfa also goes to feed cows, which feed humans. All that’s grown in CA supports humans. You could get all “America first” with it, which has some merit here, but CA still massively feeds the US.

capitainenemo 4y ago
If that alfalfa is really that cheap and easily shipped, it doesn't seem to make economic sense to produce it there, and if there was a real water market, it seems it would not be. So, producing cow feed in calfornia seems, at least from those 2 articles to not only be heavily subsidised by a poorly designed system of legacy water rights, but also completely unsustainable. That is... get the water priced correctly, and let the market sort out ratio of cow alfalfa production to other water priorities...
throwaway09223 4y ago
"All that’s grown in CA supports humans." This can be said about anything, but what matters is whether its is better to do something else to provide the same support. California only produces 3% of the country's hay. We could just grow a bit more elsewhere to compensate. Ending alfalfa in California wouldn't be a big deal. It's an extremely low value crop. Meanwhile, to grow this tiny amount of alfalfa we spend more than double all household water use in the entire state. Including swimming pools, toilets, showers, everything. It's inexplicably foolish.
orionion 4y ago
It's not just burgers and steaks. Dairy cows turn alfalfa into milk and we turn milk into butter, cheese, yogurt, kefir, cream, sour cream, cottage cheese, cream cheese, ice cream, whey, casein, pudding, flan, caramel, crema, etc.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  Dairy is significantly less resource intensive than meat (though still bad in its own right) since we don’t have to regrow a cow every time it is milked (whereas we do every time it’s slaughtered)
- shsuxnsusd 4y ago
RC_ITR 4y ago
Is your argument based on the idea that cows are the only food humans can eat?
- azinman2 4y ago
  Not at all; that’s obviously not the case. There’s also potatoes.
  - shsuxnsusd 4y ago
jshen 4y ago
We should eat a lot less meat, particularly red meat, which is extremely wasteful and destructive to the environment compared to other sources of food.
steve_adams_86 4y ago
Look at a crop like lentils though. They require relatively little water, allow for farming practices which mitigate soil erosion and the need for tilling, are not nutrient-intensive, and they yield an excellent food. Alfalfa seems insane to grow beside such a great crop like lentils. The only reason we don’t, as far as I can see, is that the demand isn’t there.
- jshen 4y ago
  Most of that alfalfa is fed to cattle. Meat is extremely wasteful.
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    That’s partially the point I intended but failed to make. We can grow lentils easily, then just eat them! It’s insanely efficient. Feeding crops to cows is bizarrely wasteful when you look at the big picture. Especially once you look at the subsidies that make meat affordable, the water usage we can no longer afford, the pathogens animal agriculture generates, etc. It seems completely untenable from my perspective. Which is strange to consider at times, because I was once a huge proponent of eating meat.

capitainenemo 4y ago

If that alfalfa is really that cheap and easily shipped, it doesn't seem to make economic sense to produce it there, and if there was a real water market, it seems it would not be. So, producing cow feed in calfornia seems, at least from those 2 articles to not only be heavily subsidised by a poorly designed system of legacy water rights, but also completely unsustainable. That is... get the water priced correctly, and let the market sort out ratio of cow alfalfa production to other water priorities...

throwaway09223 4y ago

"All that’s grown in CA supports humans." This can be said about anything, but what matters is whether its is better to do something else to provide the same support. California only produces 3% of the country's hay. We could just grow a bit more elsewhere to compensate. Ending alfalfa in California wouldn't be a big deal. It's an extremely low value crop. Meanwhile, to grow this tiny amount of alfalfa we spend more than double all household water use in the entire state. Including swimming pools, toilets, showers, everything. It's inexplicably foolish.

orionion 4y ago

It's not just burgers and steaks. Dairy cows turn alfalfa into milk and we turn milk into butter, cheese, yogurt, kefir, cream, sour cream, cottage cheese, cream cheese, ice cream, whey, casein, pudding, flan, caramel, crema, etc.

RC_ITR 4y ago
Dairy is significantly less resource intensive than meat (though still bad in its own right) since we don’t have to regrow a cow every time it is milked (whereas we do every time it’s slaughtered)
shsuxnsusd 4y ago

RC_ITR 4y ago

Is your argument based on the idea that cows are the only food humans can eat?

azinman2 4y ago
Not at all; that’s obviously not the case. There’s also potatoes.
- shsuxnsusd 4y ago

jshen 4y ago

We should eat a lot less meat, particularly red meat, which is extremely wasteful and destructive to the environment compared to other sources of food.

steve_adams_86 4y ago

Look at a crop like lentils though. They require relatively little water, allow for farming practices which mitigate soil erosion and the need for tilling, are not nutrient-intensive, and they yield an excellent food. Alfalfa seems insane to grow beside such a great crop like lentils. The only reason we don’t, as far as I can see, is that the demand isn’t there.

jshen 4y ago
Most of that alfalfa is fed to cattle. Meat is extremely wasteful.
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  That’s partially the point I intended but failed to make. We can grow lentils easily, then just eat them! It’s insanely efficient. Feeding crops to cows is bizarrely wasteful when you look at the big picture. Especially once you look at the subsidies that make meat affordable, the water usage we can no longer afford, the pathogens animal agriculture generates, etc. It seems completely untenable from my perspective. Which is strange to consider at times, because I was once a huge proponent of eating meat.