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I would just note here that the CDC is unequivocal on this point with respect to cigarettes, saying always that there is "no safe level of consumption." I thin
by dionidium 4y ago
I would just note here that the CDC is unequivocal on this point with respect to cigarettes, saying always that there is "no safe level of consumption."
I think that sort of language is basically absurd, but the message it sends is crystal clear: this thing is bad for you, even in small amounts, and you're doing harm when you use it.
I think the CDC could easily settle on the same language with respect to alcohol, if there weren't socio-cultural reasons not to.
Another aspect of this is that we discourage even light cigarette use because of the fear that users might become addicted and escalate their usage. [0] It's interesting how rarely you hear that kind of an argument against drinking alcohol, and yet, unlike with smoking, increased usage can actually be ruinous. On the day you take your first sip of alcohol you're accepting a 1 in x risk that you'll end up a problem drinker (where x is anywhere from 3 or 4 to 20, depending on what definition of "problem drinker" you're willing to accept).
[0] I remember many years ago when I was a very light smoker trying to find statistics online about moderate cigarette use and it was basically impossible, because every single statement about cigarettes was of the form, "you won't be able to only smoke a little, so don't even bother trying."
- sarchertech 4y agoI know plenty of people who have 1 drink a day, I know absolutely no one who smokes 1 cigarette per day. I’m sure they exist, but not in my n of several hundred, so I’d bet that’s it’s pretty rare. Smoking is also much more obnoxious and directly harms anyone near. This is a first order effect, not a 2nd order effect like increased risk of car accidents.
- dionidium 4y agoLots of people smoke cigarettes socially. There are in-jokes amongst smokers about the people who "don't smoke" who want to bum a cigarette in the smoking area outside at bars. It's extremely common. > Smoking is also much more obnoxious I'm not sure I've ever disagreed more with a claim than I do this one. People who have consumed alcohol are practically unbearable to the sober. And that's before we get into stuff like the fact that alcohol is implicated in some staggering percentage of all violent crime. Or drunk driving. Etc, etc.
- sarchertech 4y agoWe’re talking about light use here. I very rarely drink, and people who consume a drink or 2 with dinner are totally fine to be around. On the other hand, a person smoking 1 or 2 cigarettes near me is actively harmful to my health. If you want to find a field somewhere to smoke sure, I won’t find it obnoxious, but no one does that. >Extremely common sure I’ve met those people, I’ve never met one who does it anywhere near daily. Also most of the ones I’ve known drift in and out of periods of being heavy smokers. Again I have met many people who can drink a glass of wine every night. I have never met a single person who smokes a single cigarette after dinner. To me that says there is something different about cigarettes that makes them harder to moderate.
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- fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago> I have never met a single person who smokes a single cigarette after dinner. On the other hand, there are people who smoke one cigar occasionally: cigarettes, for whatever reason, seem to be a lot more addictive than other forms of tobacco consumption.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 4y agoCigarette breaks are a great -feeling way to punctuate your day because they force you to step outside for a brief moment once in a while with only your thoughts, and so they easily become tremendously habit-forming. The good thing about cigars is that they're terribly inconvenient. They're harder to acquire, harder to store properly, harder carry around, and they take nearly 10x as long to smoke. I've smoked a few cigars per year for almost 2 decades, and I can't imagine doing the same with cigarettes. Nobody really buys and smokes an entire pack of cigarettes in one night every few months (because it would be insane), but if they did, it's unlikely they'd become addicted.
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- Cupertino95014 4y agoNice to meet you. In college, for a year or so, I smoked one cigarette a day. Eventually, I decided any number was too much, and stopped entirely. So yeah, it's a population that probably either graduates to a big habit, or gives it up completely. Fortunately I'm in the latter group.
- robocat 4y agoYou are splitting hairs. A lot of drinking is due to social effects, for example drinking behaviours due to being around friends who are drinking. Many cancer societies are now recommending zero alcohol, for example in New Zealand (where I have some reasons to trust the organisation): https://www.cancer.org.nz/cancer/reducing-your-cancer-risk/alcohol-and-cancer-risk/ https://www.cancer.org.nz/cancer/reducing-your-cancer-risk/a...
- sarchertech 4y agoAnd you're arguing against something I'm not saying, which is that people seem to have a harder problem moderating cigarette use, and that cigarettes are more obnoxious to other people.
- robocat 4y agoMost people I know don’t moderate their drinking. Sure, a drink or a cigarette a day is not so harmful. I do know people that only have an occasional puff when out socialising and don’t even have one cigarette a day,p. You chose an unrealistic starting condition for your comparison. I agree one drink a day is surely less harmful than second hand smoking from a pack a day. But choosing those starting conditions makes for an unfair comparison, so I pick different starting conditions, in part because I live in a country where alcoholism is rife and binge drinking is normal. Excessive alcohol consumption directly harms the drinker (accidents, cancer, disease, mental health) and directly harms the family, friends and children of the drinker (alcohol has different harms from second hand smoke, and the secondary impact of an alcoholic person is sometimes more acute than chronic). Disclaimer: yeah, anecdotal, but across a wide variety of my acquaintances.
- lupire 4y agoSmoking a cigarette makes you want more. Drinking a beer doesn't do that.
- MandieD 4y agoYou know there's a reason you don't offer even a single drink to a recovering alcoholic, right? A single drink is unlikely to hurt anyone, as long as it stays a single drink. There are a lot of people who can do a good job of not having that first drink, but have a really hard time stopping once they've had it. And beer is the beverage of choice of a surprising number of alcoholics. So yeah, for a lot of people, drinking a beer makes them want more.
- kortilla 4y ago> Drinking a beer doesn't do that. There are a lot of binge drinkers that beg to differ.
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- wyclif 4y agoEver met a binge drinker? I have, starting at university. Find one of those people and ask them if drinking one beer makes them want to drink more. I think you might be surprised by the answer.