5 ms·

I don't know the specific law, but FCC does expect a phone to be able to reach 911 (e.g., 911 Act). There must already be a penalizing process or fines in plac

by libria 4y ago

I don't know the specific law, but FCC does expect a phone to be able to reach 911 (e.g., 911 Act). There must already be a penalizing process or fines in place for manufacturers who fail to meet basic standards. I'm not sure what criminal liability would look like, though. Who do we put in jail? The dev? QA? People who CR'd the bug? The TPM who proposed the feature? The manager who allocated time? The skip who initiated the whole project? Should they share blame and multithread a 7 month sentence together and do 1 month together? I agree w/ you though. My company needs to alert me if any LOC I'm working on could land me in prison and I'll gladly switch projects. I definitely don't want that burden.

BrianOnHN 4y ago
Why else are Googlers paid so much? (rhetorical) They need to do their damn job. As a pixel 6 owner, I'm disgusted.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  I know it was rhetorical but Googlers aren't pad so much because the quality of the SW coming out of Google matches the pay, but because they work for the number one data scraping and advertising company in the world. Yo can have the best leetcoders in the world, but if QA is not part of the company culture, then ...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
bjt2n3904 4y ago
It's abundantly clear from the replies in this thread that people are thinking emotionally, not rationally. They're pissed off at their phone, and reaching for the biggest stick they can find -- not to fix the problem, but to punish whoever caused it. Likely, they wouldn't even punish the right person, it would just be a scapegoat sacrificed to appease their wrath. Your comment is right on the nose when it comes to thinking rationally, and not emotionally. A smart phone is not like the flight computers on a 747. If you want guaranteed 911 access with the threat of criminal prosecution if it fails, I'll happily design you a device. It will cost $50k, and will have a monthly service fee of $1000 per user. It won't have any other features besides 911. But it will work! People just don't know what they're demanding.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dessant 4y ago
  There is a difference between initial product design (also needs to follow regulations, but not the main topic of discussion), and failure to act on repeated bug reports spanning years that clearly describe software bugs which disrupt emergency calls on Android phones. There is not much to defend in their conduct.
- dagmx 4y ago
  I would argue that you’re the one who’s having the emotional reaction , not the rational one, when it comes to involving authorities and legally mandated access to emergency services. You are clearly unaware of the legal requirements here.
  - libria 4y ago
    > You are clearly unaware of the legal requirements here. I am definitely unaware. If you do know the specific law/infraction, please link to it as that would help the discussion. It doesn't help to vaguely hand-wave (emotionally I would argue) "Someone should go to jail!!". As I asked above, which people? How much jail? And what are the clearly defined laws? There are engineers that deal directly with code critical to public safety and the amount of verification, compliance, testing, authorization, permits, processes, legal reviews, etc involved in that pipeline increase costs and delays 10-fold, but they are extremely safe and reliable. Not saying we shouldn't do this for an emergency device, but it most certainly will not be cost-free, few engineers would want to be involved and consumers will not want to buy it.
    - dagmx 4y ago
      First of all…did you change to an alt account? I don’t see libria anywhere in my reply chain above but you’re responding as if you’re bjt2n3904 Secondly nobody mentioned jail. Criminal investigation doesn’t mean jail time especially for corporations. Criminal negligence can just mean fines and a requirement to resolve the issue You’re also acting as if people are saying the whole device and all software should be infallible. That’s not the requirement. Legally any cellular device needs to be able to contact emergency services as long as there are no extenuating circumstances (dead battery, no connectivity). This is federally mandated in many countries. That Google has repeated failures to do so, across multiple countries and across a long period of time means that they are in violation of government rules. You’re being intentionally obtuse on these points.
bongoman37 4y ago
djbusby 4y ago
Fine the company $1 per unit sold per day until the 911 feature is fixed.
- dylan604 4y ago
  $1 per day per user maybe might get someone's attention
hengheng 4y ago
Does anybody know at what point the FCC can revoke the radio license of these devices? Reaching emergency services seems a prerequisite for transmitting on the telephony part of the spectrum, so it might be surprisingly clear.

by libria 4y ago

BrianOnHN 4y ago

Why else are Googlers paid so much? (rhetorical) They need to do their damn job. As a pixel 6 owner, I'm disgusted.

sieabahlpark 4y ago
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
I know it was rhetorical but Googlers aren't pad so much because the quality of the SW coming out of Google matches the pay, but because they work for the number one data scraping and advertising company in the world. Yo can have the best leetcoders in the world, but if QA is not part of the company culture, then ...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

bjt2n3904 4y ago

It's abundantly clear from the replies in this thread that people are thinking emotionally, not rationally. They're pissed off at their phone, and reaching for the biggest stick they can find -- not to fix the problem, but to punish whoever caused it. Likely, they wouldn't even punish the right person, it would just be a scapegoat sacrificed to appease their wrath. Your comment is right on the nose when it comes to thinking rationally, and not emotionally. A smart phone is not like the flight computers on a 747. If you want guaranteed 911 access with the threat of criminal prosecution if it fails, I'll happily design you a device. It will cost $50k, and will have a monthly service fee of $1000 per user. It won't have any other features besides 911. But it will work! People just don't know what they're demanding.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dessant 4y ago
There is a difference between initial product design (also needs to follow regulations, but not the main topic of discussion), and failure to act on repeated bug reports spanning years that clearly describe software bugs which disrupt emergency calls on Android phones. There is not much to defend in their conduct.
dagmx 4y ago
I would argue that you’re the one who’s having the emotional reaction , not the rational one, when it comes to involving authorities and legally mandated access to emergency services. You are clearly unaware of the legal requirements here.
- libria 4y ago
  > You are clearly unaware of the legal requirements here. I am definitely unaware. If you do know the specific law/infraction, please link to it as that would help the discussion. It doesn't help to vaguely hand-wave (emotionally I would argue) "Someone should go to jail!!". As I asked above, which people? How much jail? And what are the clearly defined laws? There are engineers that deal directly with code critical to public safety and the amount of verification, compliance, testing, authorization, permits, processes, legal reviews, etc involved in that pipeline increase costs and delays 10-fold, but they are extremely safe and reliable. Not saying we shouldn't do this for an emergency device, but it most certainly will not be cost-free, few engineers would want to be involved and consumers will not want to buy it.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    First of all…did you change to an alt account? I don’t see libria anywhere in my reply chain above but you’re responding as if you’re bjt2n3904 Secondly nobody mentioned jail. Criminal investigation doesn’t mean jail time especially for corporations. Criminal negligence can just mean fines and a requirement to resolve the issue You’re also acting as if people are saying the whole device and all software should be infallible. That’s not the requirement. Legally any cellular device needs to be able to contact emergency services as long as there are no extenuating circumstances (dead battery, no connectivity). This is federally mandated in many countries. That Google has repeated failures to do so, across multiple countries and across a long period of time means that they are in violation of government rules. You’re being intentionally obtuse on these points.

bongoman37 4y ago

djbusby 4y ago

Fine the company $1 per unit sold per day until the 911 feature is fixed.

dylan604 4y ago
$1 per day per user maybe might get someone's attention

hengheng 4y ago

Does anybody know at what point the FCC can revoke the radio license of these devices? Reaching emergency services seems a prerequisite for transmitting on the telephony part of the spectrum, so it might be surprisingly clear.